Why are Fighting Games Hard to Learn? - lightslingergame.com

Why are Fighting Games Hard to Learn?

Leon Massey
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And a question of why fighting games are fun, and what we as a community can do to help improve the landscape and teaching tools

twitter.com/LeonMFGC

254 Comments

  1. Whenever fighting games with my friends who aren't so keen on studying everything as I am, I'll always point out whenever they do something good, or how to avoid something if they keep getting hit by it.

    And for having fun with fighting games – my favorite channel for it is Moopoke.

  2. VF4:Evo style training mode should be standard. Starts at the basics and goes all the way to defensive option selects.

  3. I love lobby shenanigans. Too bad people are afraid of making scrub-friendly videos because they are so enamored with max level play and not seeming like a noob catering to noobs. :/

  4. Fighting games are just harder then most honestly

  5. In most other games, you see your improvements but in fighting games, you feel it. If that makes any sense

  6. I'm someone who's new to traditional fighters. KOF is my main game, and everything you said was so true. I have no clue how half of these mechanics even WORK, I'm still learning combos, and every video is just an overwhelming amount of inputs. I think slower, more relaxed tutorials for beginners would be a godsend! I have a really hard time with the quarter circle inputs, and I think a nice short guide would help me a ton. Like, an entire video on how to play a beginner-level Kyo would be sooo helpful to me, but all I find are intermediate or pro guides that I have no clue what to do with.

  7. Because you don't learn by playing. You learn by practicing. You don't need to be smart to get good at CSGO, just play enough to be familiar with all the situations. Fighting games? You basically need to study combos and frames to be MEDIOCRE.

  8. Fighting games are hard because you need to understand the rules for defense and offense then manipulate them to get the desired result. Also different fighting games have different places of combat which is another factor entirely. It's why despite me loving BlazBlue I'm terrible at it when compared to tekken 7

  9. I feel like I could play TFH and just about any other fighting game I own more often if I could just feel better while playing it. I want to be better at it, but when every loss just feels like a punch to the gut, it’s hard to justify wanting to “git güd” when I could pick up a different game and start having a better time 90% more often, and immediately feel more accomplished, even if I’m actually horrible at it.

    Honestly, the same problem arises when I play RTS games or any other 1v1 experience, and even in MOBAs to a certain extent. But at least with those, I can play against bots and still have a good time.

    Fighting games though? Every time I have control of my character wrenched away from me with split second responses and keen observation being my only saving grace, I think to myself:

    “Damn, if I was playing a first person shooter, I’d already be back in the fight and zipping around at high fractions of the speed of sound.”

    Basically, I can turn my brain off and still have a good time with most other games, but fighting games just lack… something; a certain je ne sais quoi, that allows me to relax myself enough to play them.

  10. I rhythm game I played recently had the normal stats for how many perfects or great but also had if I hovered these stats how many of my notes were early or late showing I had a late or early bias depending on the song

  11. Fighting games have the same problem as MOBAs. A crazy moon language and a newbie-hostile community.

  12. For real Its insane how much work is expected of new players just to be able to get to a level where you can say, "I still suck but I am much better than before"
    I started Tekken 7 for the first time this month (only every played a total of 1 hour between all other tekken games before) The amount of research I have to do just to not get beat by a total newbie spamming some gimmick move is obscene. I had to search for 15 minutes to learn about the nuances of the autoblock system, I only knew to research it because based on frame data I should have blocked moves that went through. I learned that autoblock takes 5 frames to initiate…………
    Think about that, the game doesnt even tell you that autoblock is slower than manual blocking and wont provide frame data……I like Tekken but Ill never play it more than casually because I dont want to spend a hours bashing my head agaisnt a wall all because the game coudlnt be bothered to provide me with vital information.

  13. I mentally can't comprehend long combos. I personally just stick with side kicks and haduakens

  14. Because I'm an ape who is incapable of inputting half circle consistently

  15. people love labbing fighting games. training mode. when someone brings out new tech like Desk or Mago everyone goes wild. Other games dont havethat

  16. Leon Massey is a green square. Opinion discarded. /s

  17. If you have to go out of your way to see if you've done something good after a match, that ain't very fulfilling design

  18. What really sucks is after you played for ages and years like most of us a big problem occurs. You know the things and how to use them but for some reasom youre brain goes "what is that?"

  19. Watching DotoDoya definitely helped my learn fighterz I can’t lie

  20. A lot of fighting games are also simply quite a bit more complex from the get-go overall.

    In tf2, a player only needs to know "shoot gun at bad man" to at least be playing the game.

    In street kombat 69+turbo ball Z you are not only about as competent as a crippled baby panda at the start of the game, but to even begin to actually play the game you need to learn quite a lot.

  21. Bro I have never though of anything about any of this I’m just trying to win and nothing else I just want a guidebook for idiot and in insane people like me

  22. What sucks for me is how the only people who’ll play with me will immediately tell me to kill myself when I put out oki grinders with Ky so like, even if they don’t mean it and aren’t mad and are having fun it doesn’t really feel like it, and I never feel like I’m improving because the people around me are angry at me for playing.

  23. The way I look at it as someone who wants to learn fighting games is that the big you win/you lose screen doesn’t determine wether or not you’re getting better. Just because you lost doesn’t mean you didn’t get a few decent combos in or you didn’t take advantage of some more high level mechanics. The same can be said of winning, just because you won doesn’t mean you tried anything new or rethought your strategy. Getting better at any kind of skill isn’t a straight line of improvement, its the result of many small victory’s. Noticing those small victory’s is whats going to push you to improve, not seeing some fancy win screen.

  24. I'm a novice at fighting games so trying to actually get in is more akin to CBT than an actual fuckin game. It feels about as complex as defusing a bomb and just 'getting good' isn't an option because actually playing a match has my ass getting blasted by people who have played for thousands of hours. I can't play a 'casual' match and in my low rank there are plenty of smurfs who're there just to get some wins. The other options instead of in-game practice is to grind tf out in practice mode, and in all honesty I DON'T want to grind for 10 hours to learn optimal combos for 1 or 2 characters when my time could be better applied anywhere else. "But you can feel improvement" yeah, but I had to go through CBT first

  25. Izaws art guides are good to use for an example

  26. I've been playing fighting games since 2k11 and my defense is still kind of ass but that's why I like rush down characters with a lot of tools to keep me on top and why I don't like zoners or glass canons cause once I get touched and lose advantage, I'm fucked

  27. I know nobody will see this (lol) but I've been playing Guilty Gear Strive since pc release and tbh they kinda do what you recommended with results showing how you did, I feel the game also encourages playing mission mode and training more than most but that's probably just me. Great vid tho

  28. I think the better way would be invest in game community. Give players a non ranked lobby where people can play and chat in a casual manner. As much as people talk about how toxic fgc is, they're mostly really welcoming to new players, and willing to teach them at least at floor levels. I completely agree that an on screen reward system is funcional, but most fg are overwhelming with mechanics while just learning to defend and punishing a few moves can lead the average player very far.

  29. I think one of the best thing about GG strive is the floor system. I'm shit but I don't get rekt on every match, and end up with players around my skill level. Idk why but when I tried SFV or DBFZ it felt like even in scrubb Bronze I met people WAY above my skill level. So far Strive's floors have been really fair to me.

  30. once they start talking about frames and cancels i just clock out

  31. Don't play FGs, but I watched and agreed with this whole video and then subbed.

  32. COCK AND BALL TORTURE (CBT)
    Cock and ball torture (CBT), occasionally known as penis torture, dick torture, or male genitorture/male genital torture, is a sexual activity involving the application of pain or constriction to the penis or testicles. This may involve directly painful activities, such as genital piercing, wax play, genital spanking, squeezing, ball-busting, genital flogging, urethral play, tickle torture, erotic electrostimulation, kneeing or kicking. The recipient of such activities may receive direct physical pleasure via masochism, or emotional pleasure through erotic humiliation, or knowledge that the play is pleasing to a sadistic dominant. Many of these practices carry significant health risks.
    An assortment of chastity devices at Dore Alley Fair in 2011

    Devices and practices :

    Erotic electrostimulation. Hanging weight on pierced penis. Wax play. Chastity piercing.
    Similar to many other sexual activities, CBT can be performed using toys and devices to make the penis and testicles more easily accessible for attack, or for foreplay purposes.
    Ball stretcher:
    A metal ball stretcher and cock ring, which forces penis' erection.
    A ball stretcher is a sex toy that is used to elongate the scrotum and provide a feeling of weight pulling the testicles away from the body. This can be particularly enjoyable for the wearer as it can make an orgasm more intense, as testicles are prevented from moving up. Intended to make one's testicles permanently hang much lower than before (if used regularly for extended periods of time), this sex toy can be potentially harmful to the male genitals as the circulation of blood can be easily cut off if over-tightened.
    While leather stretchers are most common, other models consist of an assortment of steel rings that fastens with screws, causing additional but only mildly uncomfortable weight to the wearer's testicles. The length of the stretcher may vary from 1-4 inches. A more dangerous type of ball stretcher can be home-made simply by wrapping rope or string around one's scrotum until it is eventually stretched to the desired length.

    Ball crusher:
    A ball crusher is a device made from either metal or often clear acrylic that squeezes the testicles slowly by turning a nut or screw. How tight it is clamped depends on the pain tolerance of the person it is used on. A ball crusher is often combined with bondage, either with a partner or by oneself.

    Parachute:
    A parachute is a small collar, usually made from leather, which fastens around the scrotum, and from which weights can be hung. It is conical in shape, with three or four short chains hanging beneath, to which weights can be attached.
    Used as part of cock and ball torture within a BDSM relationship, the parachute provides a constant drag, and a squeezing effect on the testicles. Moderate weights of 3–5 kg can be suspended, especially during bondage, though occasionally much heavier weights are used. Smaller weights can be used when the male wearing it is free to move; the swinging effect of the weight can restrict sudden movements, as well as providing a visual stimulus for the dominant partner.[citation needed]

    Humbler:
    A humbler is a BDSM physical restraint device used to restrict the movement of a submissive male participant in a BDSM scene.
    The humbler consists of a testicle cuff device that clamps around the base of the scrotum, mounted in the center of a bar that passes behind the thighs at the base of the buttocks. This forces the wearer to keep his legs folded forward, as any attempt to straighten the legs even slightly pulls hard on the scrotum, causing anything from considerable discomfort to extreme pain.

    Testicle cuffs:
    A testicle cuff is a ring-shaped device around the scrotum between the body and the testicles which when closed does not allow the testicles to slide through it. A common type has two connected cuffs, one around the scrotum and the other around the base of the penis. They are just one of many devices to restrain the male genitalia. A standard padlock, which cannot be removed without its key, may also be locked around the scrotum.
    Some passive men enjoy the feeling of being "owned", while dominant individuals enjoy the sense of "owning" their partners. Requiring such a man wear testicle cuffs symbolizes that his sexual organs belong to his partner, who may be either male or female. There is a level of humiliation involved, by which they find sexual arousal. The cuffs may even form part of a sexual fetish of the wearer or his partner.[citation needed]
    However, these are extreme uses of testicle cuffs. More conventionally, the device pulls down the testicles and keeps them there during stimulation, which has a number of benefits:

    -Making the penis appear longer. Pulling the testicles down and away from the base of the penis stretches the skin over the base of the penis and pubic bone, exposing the additional inch or so of penile shaft that is normally hidden from view.
    -Improving sexual arousal. While some men may be aroused by the feeling of being "owned", the physical feeling of stretching the ligaments that suspend the testicles has an effect similar to the more common practice of stretching one's legs and pointing the toes.
    -Preventing the testicles from lifting up so far that they become lodged under the skin immediately adjacent to the base of the penis, a condition which can be very uncomfortable, especially if the testicle is then squashed by the slap of skin during thrusting in sexual intercourse.
    -Delaying or intensifying ejaculation by preventing the testicles from rising normally to the "point of no return". It is much harder to reach an orgasm.

    Cock harness:
    A "Gates of Hell" chastity device used for erotic sexual denial. It prevents the penis of a submissive male who has been sexually aroused from becoming erect.
    A cock harness is a penile sex toy designed to be worn around the penis and scrotum. Its function is similar to that of a cock ring. These devices are often associated with BDSM activities. The Gates of Hell is a male chastity device made up of multiple cock rings that can be used for CBT. Kali's Teeth is a metal bracelet with interior spikes that closes around the penis and can be used for preventing or punishing erections.

    Ball busting:
    Ball busting: A dominatrix kicking her male submissive's testicles at Folsom Street Fair, USA. Besides causing pain, this act is also causing his public disgrace.
    "Ball busting" is the practice of kicking or kneeing men in the testicles. It carries several medical risks, including the danger of testicular rupture from blunt trauma.

    CBT in Japan :

    Tamakeri (玉蹴り) (lit. ball kicking) is a sexual fetish and subgenre of BDSM within which a man's testicles are abused. The genre is also referred to as ballbusting ("bb" for short). Tamakeri is the Japanese term, but it is used by many non-Japanese people to describe media where Asian people—mainly women—are participating in it. The dynamics of tamakeri consist of a masochist having their testicles hurt by a sadist. The fetish is popular among heterosexual and homosexual men and women.
    Denkianma (電気按摩) (lit. "electric massage") is a popular Japanese prank played between two people where one person puts their foot into the genital area of the other and shakes it in a vibrating motion. Often this is done by grabbing the other person's feet, raising them, and then placing one's own foot on their crotch and vibrating it. This is often done between school aged boys as a prank similar to kancho and could be seen by a western audience as a type of bullying. In 2006, Frito Lay released a special, Taitsukun-themed edition of Doritos chips, that referenced denki anma.

    Safety :

    This section needs attention from an expert in health. The specific problem is: concerns medical topics, but lacks appropriate citations. (October 2019)
    Loss of blood flow is one of the greatest risks in cock and ball torture and may cause irreversible damage. Bleeding is an indicator of unsafe behavior. Because numbness may result from circulation problems in the affected member, the level of pain is not an indicator of a problem and signs of danger include numbness or loss of color and edemas. Bondage in which the testicles are tied to another object is especially dangerous, increasing the risk of damaging the testicles through excessive tension or pulling.
    The most serious injuries are testicular rupture, testicular torsion and testicular avulsion, which are medical emergencies that require urgent medical attention.

    Urethral fingering is an example of CBT needing special precautions, such as not having a sharp nail on the finger inserted inside the penis. Image shows a woman doing urethral fingering.

    A woman puts clamps on a man's penis. The clamps should not be pulled off forcefully.

    A woman holding a bound man's penis applies electricity to his testicles at Folsom Street Fair. The electricity applied should never be increased suddenly.

    A gagged man's penis and scrotum are pulled using a rope at Folsom Street Fair. The force applied to pull should always be increased gradually.

    A dominatrix bites a gagged man's penis, while pulling and squeezing his testicles with her hand, at Folsom Street Fair. The biting should be done within limits.

    A woman wearing heels tramples the penis of her submissive male. This should be done carefully to prevent serious injury.

  33. I feel the thing that forces people in the mindset of “I need to learn combos to play this game” are not just the crazy combo videos you see but the inclusion of the combo counter turned on when you start a game. when a player starts and this counter is always in the corner and forces the players partial attention towards with its big flashy-ness, it makes newbies feel like they aren’t doing good if that number isn’t high like how others get them too, so having it turned off when you start playing a game with option to turn it on later might mitigate a new players stress to feel like they need to know how to do crazy combos to play the game “properly”

  34. Mortal kombat 11 does a really good job at that tbh

  35. WHERE THE FUCK DO I START, WHAT ARE THE LAWS AN EMULATION???, HOW DO I FIND MATCHES?????

  36. My biggest hurdles have been combos.
    I don't know if I'm just too slow, or too fast even, but I cannot for the life of me get any kind of combo to happen on damn near any game. And seeing that my intro to many of these fighters was crazy combo vids, I got a warped view of what a typical match looks like. Only recently have I realized that I'm essentially trying to jump from A to Z, and that the basics are far and away more valuable at my level. Once I focused on that, my overall performance has drastically improved. I still can't bang out combos yet, but my normals carry me through most casual challenges. And presumably I'll only get better with time and effort.

  37. idk why but fighting games have always been a contest of me doing something, currently got into GG revelator and have just been playing against bots with the goal of winning as cleanly as possiable then when i got bored of regular level of bots i upped it to hard which has keep me playing for 3 games then doing something else. still dont want to play against players cause of how unconfident i am and this is my first ever anime 2d fighter.

  38. Honestly smash ultimate does the last two things really well. The community has waaaay more videos of people just having a good time with the game than tournament videos, and you pick up a lot of things along the way from them. Also the stats and the end of the game like air attacks performed or falls can give you an idea of what you are doing too much/little

  39. 3:30 ah yes, the best fighting game guide, the dunkey dragon ball fighterz video

  40. I think core-A is amazing for teaching universal concepts.

    I think we need more play style guides and gameplan guides. If I want to ask “how do I play kazuya” I will get his combos and people saying wavu wavu mixup. Use his hellsweep etc. Here’s the thing. If I just bought tekken, idfk what a hellsweep is, and if im new to fighting games, idfk what a mixup is.

    There’s almost no tutorial online that explains mix. I’ve been in the community on and off for about a year but I only really learnt about mixups when I saw kazuya and decided “oooh electrics are cool” and then I learnt the rest about 4 months ago.

  41. I love playing other people in fighting games, it's almost vaguely intimate when you really get to know someone through how they fight.

  42. I've wanted to get into fighting games forever, but I just can't get into them. They're a complicated enigma.

  43. Haha! I killed you, with a Knoife!

    I killed you 10 times! I win!

    No no no… I killed you with a Knoife!

    I KILLED YOU 10 TIMES THOUGH, I WIN!

    But, I killed you with my Knoife (✿^‿^)

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