The problem with modern fighting games - lightslingergame.com

The problem with modern fighting games

Panda | Kizzie Kay
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PG Kizzie Kay gives his thoughts on issues around the latest generation of fighting games (Guilty Gear Xrd, Street Fighter V, Tekken 7, etc.) and how they’re affecting how players react to changes to developers do that are meant to make their games easier. Plus, some more Guilty Gear Xrd Rev 2 online matches.

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408 Comments

  1. ayy yooo i solved this problem by playing kazuya in tekken 7. Works like a charm

  2. You made me wanna start guilty gear and play more fighting games, love seeing your videos bro, subbed.

  3. You could always sacrifice accessability for rewarding gameplay. Like actually useful tutorials instead of "Use this button to do a punch attack. Try it 13 times."

  4. Could Base Vegeta in DBFZ be an example of a good execution character? There's no debate regarding him being top tier, plus he requires good execution to play him optimally (corner combos, Level 3 oki etc.)

  5. “Now it’s time to do Sin things”
    Potemkin proceeds to do Potemkin things 😂 he’s such a goofy character

  6. Ayo Kizzie I haven't seen much Overture (like 3 minutes pretty much) and seeing that you like it It'd be cool if you made a video on it lol

  7. the problem is that they make too many characters "beginner friendly" so that people can, for the most part, play who they think looks cool or find personally appealing to them. Gone are the days of grinding the game out on a ryu type character until you've mastered the games mechanics with them and are then ready to try out the more difficult and possibly more rewarding characters.

  8. Everything you said kiz I been saying for years!!! All facts!! You are 100000000000 percent correct!!

  9. Angel in KOF 2002 could f***k u up real bad if you had the execution down🤣🤣

  10. I love that Kizzie has such a great analysis of fighting games in his videos and he's also such a high level player that he'll feature his matches against the likes of Sonic Fox and Justin Wong.

  11. mkx liu kang stands as the last execution heavy character i remember that actually rewards you, character mad good when u got everything down and the execution. dragon ball fighterz is such an easy game i cannot picture it being "execution heavy", tho there are harder characters, which is always fun, such as master roshi and trunks.

  12. Fujin is the most execution character in MK11 and he's pretty top tier.

  13. Tekken 7 rewards execution… sometimes with some characters lolll

  14. Have execution heavy characters but don't let them be ass

  15. I think the trick has to be adding more execution scaling across the board, so that low execution floor characters can scale with skill to the same heights that high execution floor characters can.

  16. i think people should pick their character depending on who they like rather than how easy or strong they are. at a certain point it prolly doesnt matter anymore since i think everyone in gg has hard stuff, and people makes mistake left and right even in tournaments

  17. Tekken‘s best characters are all high execution. Just leave 2D behind😌

  18. Accessibility goes both ways.

    The best games are easy to pick up hard to master.

    Personally I like the idea of the Blazblue approach. All characters have simple basic shared commands and use a 'skill' input for greater nuance.

    That is a gross abbreviation but the idea is shared basics with the best parts being the hardest on each character.

    Maybe that's part of why UMVC3 is such a cult classic.

    I will say the unfortunate fact with fighting games is that it is a constant measure of reward vs effort vs risk. As much of the first with as little of the other two as possible. The trick seems to be the balancing act

  19. 4:12 low tier? Sin is one of the best characters in the game though

  20. 4:42 Kizzie CAPPED HARD man if that were true it should be BAIKEN that eyepatch is whack!

  21. I honestly think we don't need to dumb down the games we have for new players. What we need are new ip's that have simple mechanics but really start making the basics fun. The barrier for entry is the problem

  22. People, especially casuals don't care how difficult mechanics might be, casuals don't even know what the mechanics really are. People will stick around if they really like the game, regardless of how difficult it might be to learn. If they are really interested in the game, they will want to learn it. And the less a game has weather that be to a degree mechanics ,content, visuals, aesthetics, what have you, the less there is, the less there is holding you to the game. Just make games sick and fun, and stop trying to make mechanics "accessible" that's not going to pull casuals. Accessibility should be added in other areas, better tutorialization, game options, content, the like. PLZ fighting game devs, I don't want to see another gen of SFV season 1 wanabes. PLZ

  23. I feel like Venom in GGXRD is the closet! He’s got the sauce, the big brain plays, good anti-air 6P. With Good execution he’s deadly asf but theres like 1 thing keeping him away from being good….. and its the developers 😭

  24. I think every fighting game should be cross platform across every available platform, then you have a larger player base and can have better SBMM. Rewarding high skill high execution players isnt a problem if you play against people of the same or similar skill level as you.

  25. "How can you make an execution character accessable?"
    I dunno…….
    *Looks at Grandblue fantasy
    I really don't know

  26. The problem of make an execution character stronger (or any character stronger) is that at high level all people would use it and tournaments would become boring as fuck. That's why capcom decided to change Menat.

  27. in tekken 7 the mishimas are execution characters, there are 4 of them, and they range anywhere from low tier Heihachi to S tier Devil Jin.

    Heihachi is the most mechanically difficult character but it isnt that far off how much Devil Jin would have to do.

    the two in the middle of this group of 4 are Jin and Kazuya. id argue these two are the most well rounded fun and fair of the 4. devil jin feels too good for the work you put in and heihachi feels too weak for the work you put in.

    they all feel rewarding to play even though they arent all as good as eachother despite taking relatively similar amounts of practice and execution.

  28. I feel like Tekken does this very well. got kbd, taunt jet upper, electrics. And these characters are always high tier. On top of that, the higher to do long wall carry combos are generally a lot more rewarding and damaging than the basic bitch bread and butter

  29. you know i made a video with this exact concept and title 3 months before this video came out. did you get the idea to make this video from me???

  30. a tough character to play and strong is fkg fun to play

  31. It's funny cause all of the problems these pros have with games the answer is always the same… UNIST

  32. If this is counting tekken then its just wrong considering akuma is easily one of the most demanding characters but also being so close to broken. Same with geese, dvj, kazuya, the list goes on.

  33. I'm a simple man, too. Nago goes chomp – and it winds up being a really strong technique for him – and I'm like 'That's my new main'.

  34. late af but the real issue with execution based characters is the reward, when is too much for this extreme combo? What is too little? With simple kits you can make clear cut rewards but should a person be able to instagib you cause they did some hard shit?
    Its a tough thing to design imo.

  35. This is exactly how I feel about tekken 7. Ive been playin Master Raven and Diablo Jim for years now and Ive never felt as if I did it for good reason other than the aspect of execution. The funniest part about execution characters is that because they are so hard to play. Noone understands them and thinks they are busted beyond repair.

    If you take something like dvjs hellsweep and ask a newer player or a player that doesnt ever try playing dvj they will say its busted. But what they dont realise is that playing devil jin against a player who is experienced in the matchup will almost never get swept because its required to be almost point blank to get it.

    This is just one example out of a million. My combo rewards are the same as everyone elses, so whats the point in playing them when I could play the new and improved josie rizal or leroy smith instead.

  36. The problem itself is they need to stop with the how to make things accessible some game are not meant for some people you got to understand that

  37. the only problem with the first statement of the video for me is that the top tier character is Johnny which is very hard to play compared to most other top tier characters

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