The eternal question in fighting games. -

The eternal question in fighting games.

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#lordknight #DBFZ #GuiltyGear

No matter what the year is, there is one fighting game question that is forever – why are new games so “scrubby”?

We look 10 years ago for ASW’s answer.

Original video here –

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  1. It's funny how Guilty Gear fans have changed so little over the years lol.

  2. Hardcore FG players gotta do something…moaning for moaning sake. Dunno whether to laugh or yawn. Think I'll…hhahahhahhaa

  3. DBZF got me into the FGC, so I really like that Strive isn’t overly complicated. It’s the reason I’m picking up the game and going to grind it to play at Evo.

  4. Accessibility hurts no one, lol. You still have to be good at the game to excel and compete. We're acting like these are arena fighters which are TRULY scrubby, lol.

  5. I think a lot of fgc peeps forget that there are more to Fighting games than just doing execution. And that execution does not make or break that fighting game. Really what makes Guilty Gear fun is that the characters have versatility and options. And that's different from ease of execution or lack thereof in my opinion. I think strive Sol proves my point. That character has a LOT of fun shit and different ways of approaching. But Strive Sol is way easier than his earlier iterations.

  6. HnK is degenerate but it is fun.

    Double Dribble? Nah. Triple Dribble Double Flip.

  7. The problem with complexity is it’s too much of a focus. What really matters in a fighting game is depth. Soulcalibur 2 is an incredibly deep game. Most combos are 2-4 single hitting moves long. There’s so many things you have at your disposal that worst character yung seoung can consistently beat the best xianghau players, the best players using the best character. Outside of garou i can’t think of many meta’s that happens in.

    Players focus on complexity thinking it meant the game better ignoring a lot of these things “dumbing the game down were quality of life changes. And devs think that by homogenizing the cast and removing decision making and cool options they’re removing complexity to make things more fair. Both ignore that a game will always be its best when you have so many options and decisions to make you’re still learning stuff years later.

    Melee is the deepest smash game to this day. And despite all the later game players mocking the game for being a broken mess, it’s still easily has some of the best balance of all the games because the options available are so rich that you can literally win a major tournament with bottom 7 Roy if you’re that good with the mechanics.

  8. Lordknight is like the sf4 of fighting game players

  9. What really bothers me is nobody stops to think about how the new systems create an even richer game. XRD is more complex, better balanced, cooler, and richer than +R, and it´s plain to see the intention with Strive is the same thing. The new systems they create should allow for more complex, organic gameplay, everyone starts from a mistaken initial assumption; that they are making the game "dumbed-down". There is nothing you know "cool" about say, REALLY ANAL inputs, it´s not something that points to anything really, the thing I admire about XRD, for example, is that it´s not hard EVER for the sake of being hard, rather, it´s hard because it wants to give room to players to express themselves in communication with another player, so naturally you have to well, do that in a precise, fast manner. The "hard for the sake of being hard" stuff should be eliminated, what should remain is a game that allows incredible PRECISION OF CONTROL to the player, and the MOVEMENT ALONE in STRIVE is way better than in XRD for that reason, you can move in ultra precise ways in STRIVE, much more detailed than in XRD, so the game will be more technical because there is just more room to outmaneuver your opponent.

  10. Damn and I thought s broly combos were long

  11. To my understanding, HnK is a combination of 2 things:

    – Characters bounce off the ground. The harder they hit the floor, the higher they bounce.
    Just a fun mechanic to give impact to the bounces.

    – Gravity scaling only affects you pre-bounce and just pretty much makes you hit the ground harder

    So you get this situation where "gravity" is really high and you get shot downwards.
    Then you hit the ground really fast so you bounce high.
    Then gravity scaling doesn't affect you on the way back up.

  12. "This unexplored game seems to have less mechanics/depth to it than *game that has been played and labbed for years*"

  13. 17:24 LK is an expert about F1 and has a Zizou avatar. LK is European confirmed lol (or at least definitely not American!)

  14. As someone who started of with Melty blood this video awakens so much nostalgia, especially coming from LK. People will always be hating.

  15. I think a Tumblr post summed up HnK with an image of someone dribbling a corpse with his fist and the caption is "Basketball 2:Electric Boogaloo"

  16. Fighting games have only gotten more complicated. Blaz blue is one of the most technical games ever made, the combos in blazblue are super complicated. This idea that Fighting games have been getting dumbed down is bullshit. This just people gatekeeping and complaining about shit they don't know.

  17. Great video loved it from minute one
    Thank you thank you

  18. people think 'accessible' means 'shallow', it doesn't. hard also doesn't mean good, nor does complex, but that's secondary to the fact that a game can be easy to get into and still be incredibly deep! these are different things! ugh people drive me fucking nuts. thanks again for the video.

  19. The eternal convo of Boomers not wanting change, and Devs trying to keep the genre relevant before it dies like competitive RTS games.💀


  21. Wait do Axl players have a bad reputation? I just picked him up in the beta last year lol

  22. I’ll never understand why people hate how easy fighting games can be when you can always just make it difficult by extending your combos, which is not something that noobs will be putting off. I’ve always hated 2D fighters because I always found the mobility of 3D games more fun, but I still played a few here and there. FighterZ is the first one that actually made me feel like I could learn some of the more “advanced” concepts without going insane.

  23. Really intressting Video 🙂 i think Noob friendly with deep Mechanics is the best you can do 😅 DBZ Fighterz is the best reason for that

    And his Look 😂😂 omg legendary Moment

  24. I doubt many noobs were carried by stuff like this, or even cared about stuff like this lol. It's such a fighting game mega nerd problem.

  25. The eternal question in fighting games: "What's the mix?"

  26. Yo mama so easy she the SF4 of Guilty Gear

  27. To those people who think something easy shouldn't be in the game, I always say: use all your easy gameplay to win against the pros then, gl bro

  28. "BlazBlue is Guilty Gear for noobs"
    Me a BBTAG Player: -_-

  29. I looked through your videos, so I guess I see why, but legit like 75% of this comment section says that DBFZ was their introduction to the FGC, which just boggles my mind. I mean it's a pretty new-age fighting game that's not so beginner-friendly, and the tutorials are aśş, yet in this comment section I see that apparently many people played this as their first fighting game and got really into it. I mean I've never personally vibed with dbfz since there's no good Grapplers on the base roster, but I still tried my best to make the most out of those $60 and I'd say I at least got decent, but regardless if this was my first fighting game, my introduction to the genre, I would've said HELL NO and gone on with my life. I mean maybe I'm trash since I'm just a dirty bbtag player, but my utmost respect to those who had the patience and resolve to play dbfz as their first fighting game and end up liking it

  30. I REALLY hate it when people conflate execution with application. Making things easier to execute only places the emphasis on proper application of your tools, which inherently pushes a deeper, more rewarding experience in my eyes. It essentially frontloads the mind game aspect of fighting games (the fucking core of the experience) instead of hiding it behind an execution wall. Don't get me wrong, hard to execute stuff is always hype, but I do genuinely believe that application is the axis upon which games spin, and if people can't do even basic stuff they're never going to find out why these games are actually fun. People are actually out here screaming for fighting games to remain gated communities that stagnate and die. They just don't want anyone else to play I guess.

  31. HnK is faithful to the source material because you can do the One-Hundred-Fist Rush in real time

  32. I thought the eternal question was why did they mash there

  33. I don't mind if combos are easier, I just want there to be interesting neutral, defense, offense that allows for players to still express themselves and to showcase their skill in various ways. I don't want another MK11 downgrade, where the game strives for balance so hard that it neuters any fun or interesting mechanics that existed previously.

    Strive in particular seems to be taking options and moves away, which to me, follows that MK11 design philosophy. I don't care if the combos are made easier, but keep the options and mechanics nuanced and varied enough to keep it exciting. Note how SF5 keeps adding mechanics, to keep it fresh, that's what we need. Don't develop it for 5 years to get to a good point, start it at a good place.

    Marvel infinite, SFxT, Persona 4, while controversial these games I think did this right. P4A was noob friendly while being insanely skillful and challenging and incredibly impressive combo wise at times. SFxT, despite many saying how boring it was, had vast amounts of features, mechanics and nuances while being arguable the easiest execution SF ever made prior to SF5. And Marvel infinite, added even more mechanics to spice up neutral. Say what you want on the balancing and what not but these games didn't strip away the fun, they threw ideas at the wall and took chances. The new wave of FG's seem to be doing the opposite, which is a worry for games like Strive.

  34. It was tough being a long time GG player who also enjoyed BB when CT came out on Dustloop. Not sure if anyone answered you but Buzzsaw is a Potemkin player. Or was back in AC.

  35. so basically an embodiment of gatekeeping
    even as today people still love doing this.

  36. I'm sipping on that spicy water but lk hate or love him is without a doubt spitting facts

  37. New fighters have certainly lowered the barrier for entry, and that's probably neccessary to keep the fighting game genre alive. But in my opinion, fighting games don't live long on their competitiveness, no matter how easy they become. Smash is an outlier, because there's less rigid stuff to learn, it's much more about perfecting your own character than learning every inch of the oppoenent.
    But with fighting games in general, they need to embrace what Granblue Versus tried (and failed at): interesting Singleplayer content. The average casual willing to try a fighter will probably delve into the Training, VS, or Arcade Mode first and just try their luck mashing buttons. Tutorial Mode is not a very appealing thing, because players feel belittled when the game spends active time teaching you the basics instead of dynamically introducing these aspects through some kind of Story/Adventure Mode, even when they're absolute noobs. But fighting games, even when they try to be as simple to understand as possible, still treat beginners a bit like idiots. It's not intended to be, but basically telling a guy in front of the screen how to play AT ALL comes off as condencending.

    With Dragonball FighterZ, they had a huge brand and incredible visuals to bank on, and the tag system allowed for more flexible playstyles. But in terms of content, people were constantly starved for new stuff, and only the invested upper ranks kept playing, while casuals either abandoned or paused the game until the next DLC character. In a similar fashion, DLC is the big think keeping Smash Ultimate in the spotlight, with tournaments having enjoyed a good boost in popularity, but what sells the game is the content, which means characters. With OC fighters like Guilty Gear, Street Fighter, or Tekken, the roster is mainly new stuff for retained players, but not much of a point of interest for people who haven't taken notice of them yet. Offering new play modes along the way would sway more opinions than the next new face – at least that's what I've observed over the years.

  38. Yeah, dude is ridiculous. BlazBlue is one of the most difficult games to play at a high level. It's on par with Guilty Gear.

    As for Strive, I'm looking forward to it. DBZ Fighter is the first FG I managed to get some of my non-FG player friends to play, and while yeah they were all pretty much using BnBs and what have you it was genuinely fun having more people playing the game. The better and more dedicated players still come out on top. The casual players lost almost every game still, but they weren't completely helpless.

    More players is a good thing no matter how you wanna spin it, and Arc System is fantastic at still making the games deep enough to be competitive.

  39. Lord knight just casually putting all the fighting game boomers on blast. Which is fair the same discourse over and over on a shifting goal post for decades is tedious.
    (Also BUZZSAW, like Eddie? Disgusting)

  40. "blazblue so noob friendly" and here I am having arthrhytis after playing 1 match

  41. "Noob friendly" Video games are a great way to introduce casuals to fighting game
    My friend got into fighting games because I tagged him to play FighterZ, he bought mortal Kombat X but he found it a bit too challenging and dropped it moments after clearing the story
    Also more Players = Stonks

  42. They thought Bb was "noob" friendly? Heck BB got me into fighters, so I guess it was?

  43. I honestly think that you can't tell how deep a fighting game goes until the top level players how at LEAST a year with the game.

    not saying you can't pick out flaws sooner than that but I've watched the FGC shit on a game just to turn around and call it godlike and wish more games were like it down the road once people have time to properly solve it.

  44. Bruh. As a current BBCF player, noob-friendly my ASS!

    Super sick game tho. I love it and I'm a haku main for life.

  45. When ct came out and I wanted to play, people complained. When xrd came out people complained. When bbtag came out people complained. People are complaining about strive. There's a consistent pattern of people wanting to rationalize why they are better than the people that are actually going out and playing their favorite game. What's so silly about this is that today xrd and cf are revered as technical games. That happens because when a game isn't new, the only people talking are the people that understand and non players have no reason to start shit. Wish the FGC would have a gentleman's agreement to treat these complaints as lazy and useless. Hopefully that skips some of the bullshit.

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