The eternal question in fighting games. - lightslingergame.com

The eternal question in fighting games.

LordKnight
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#lordknight #DBFZ #GuiltyGear

No matter what the year is, there is one fighting game question that is forever – why are new games so “scrubby”?

We look 10 years ago for ASW’s answer.

Original video here –

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85 Comments

  1. People hate on BBTag all day it gets tiering

  2. I always tell people to sit down, give it 4 weeks. Someone who isn't whining about lack of depth is out there finding some really crazy tech. It'll come out.

  3. I think it's a fair assessment for some games like MK11, but Strive doesn't seem scrubby at all. There are no execution aids like large buffer windows, there are tons of advanced combo routes per character, meter management is crucial, RC system is deep, lots of niche tech/mechanics to explore. I think people are underestimating this game

  4. Look at smash brothers. Smash is a VERY nooby friendly game, which is called a "Party game". There's element of randomness and luck to also even out the odds of skilled players. but yet, there's a niche, competitive sphere that brings the game to a professional level and there are tournaments. You can try the same with the GG series.

  5. Make a series called fighting game boomer history

  6. Man that ec vs wc dustloop/melty bread forums drama was comedy gold. 10/10 would love to see it again

    Buzzsaw plays pot

  7. If you make a fighting game easier for new people, you effectively make it easier for the best players as well. So, the new players will all have more fun because it's easier and the pro players will be able to pull off even crazier stuff than before…it's literally a win-win. You grow the audience while increasing the hype. Yeah you still need advanced stuff in games for people to be impressed, but getting more people to play is always good for the fgc. People just wanna brag that they can do 1 and 2 frame links to get 3 more damage in their combo.

  8. "this new game is too scrubby"="I can't beat people I think I'm superior to"

  9. Honestly, by changing how moves cancel into each other by limiting jump cancel and changing gatling/dust they have made guilty gear way more execution heavy than before.

    Most of your flashy and difficult stuff in old GG was rarely safe enough to do in a match.

    Plus the damage being bonkers now makes everything a mind game.

    Its like the best of GG combined with the best of super turbo.

  10. A lot of this mentality also comes from the fact the new game is new.

    No one has meta yet. No one knows how the systems actually work or can be optimized.

    Its comparing something you understand to something you dont and making assumptions

  11. HnK is complete shit omg lol but it's special

  12. Hey, I'm playing VF5. What's he trying to say?

  13. Lucie’s Guard [8th Apostle of the Twelve] says:

    Modern blazblue is just asking to have your hands destroyed

  14. I'm just shocked that Blazblue was considered a noob game way back then. When I got Calamity Trigger my friend said "it's a fighting game where every character is like learning a new fighting game."

  15. I think the main problem is the line between being able to understand how a superior player destroys you and only being able to see lots of combos and hard to follow things, so you can't really say "hey, i know what he did and i know that's negative on block, let's punish it next time" or something like that.

    So the real balance shouldn't be about the difficulty but setting it up in a way that the game is readable, Guilty Gear Strive did a good job in that sense, other than Chipp it's pretty easy to understand what's going on (cough cough maybe reduce counter text size and some effects to make it more readable tho)

  16. Raoh is broken: very manga/Anime accurate if you ask me LOLOLOL

  17. The question is a dumb one and watching the question perplex "fans" who want their favorite franchise to continue existing is kinda funny.

  18. If they made the games incredibly, DISGUSTINGLY hard… but in ways older players weren't used to, they wouldn't want that either. What people want is the effort they put into their insane mechanics to be validated and give them an edge.

    I understand that desire, but doing so males a game for approx 200 people. You fuckers who feel this way would have to spend 1k per copy to make that viable to sell, and even if you DID the community would die a hundred times over.
    …its just a bad argument, period

  19. 5:01 I really like the way this was phrased. I really envy folks who are able to see the games in this way. One of my best friends and training partners is really good at this sort of thing, being able to explain why a mechanic is in a game beyond a surface level explanation and I feel like I'm definitely the kind of person who just tries to 'fight the game'.

  20. How can anyone look at that footage of hnk, and say this looks fine, this looks entertaining to watch?

  21. "BB is noob friendly." If only that were true, my older brother wouldn't have gotten gatekept. Because he had a hard time with it, I stayed away because I figured that I wouldn't be able to get into it either. What a mistake that was, since it was actually what several years later got me into these games. That said, I don't think I'd be able to get him into Strive either lol.

  22. Why does everyone talk by region? Some players in every region were utilizing throw reject, I assure you. Just because the majority you ran into didn’t doesn’t mean that everyone in the region magically didn’t know it.

  23. don't gate keep timmy he's a fuckin homie, show some respect man

  24. I always wanted to play HnK, just as a fan of the show. I wish it wasnt such a meme game.

  25. What the hell did I just watch? You wasted 25 minutes of my life Lord flop. You didn’t say anything of substance in that whole video you didn’t make any solid points.
    “The same things people say after every bee fighting game release”? What?
    How dumb they lower the skill gap cuz they want more money pure and simple. They cater to newbies and not the core community and that hurts the game and the FGC.

  26. One of the many, many, many, many reasons I hate league of legends is cause balance in the game is either made towards skin profit OR the 1% of pro league

  27. FGC people have some very strange notions of "noobs".
    All other things aside, noobs such as myself don't even know or understand things that make people like this upset.

  28. I think 9/10 games would be better with a buffer like sf5 has

  29. Dude…You hit the CS BlazBlue stuff and I started dying. People talking shit about BB Barrier/Throw OS and BlazBlue had TRM. Even I could TRM when I spotted people trying Barrier/Throw OS!

    This shit never goes away – people are such fools!

  30. I’m new to fighting games with Strive. As much as it’s called a baby game by old heads, it’s really difficult for me.

  31. Fighting games are at their best when both matched players have achieved intentionality. If we could all do what we want, when we wanted – the genre would still be beautiful to play and spectate because the sport is in the decision making, not the dexterity.

  32. Lordknight: "I don't want to get into east coast vs west coast"

    Lordknight two minutes later: "let me tell you about going to west coast"

  33. Actually, input buffers should be even longer. Links that require you to execute the move immediately after another one ends should be able to be executed by holding down the button at any moment during the previous move's recovery. Otherwise, it's a dumb concept and bad/outdated game design. And you know why? Because otherwise you can simply get the link out by mashing the button, which is stupid.

    I'll give you and example LK, since you played Margaret in P4AU, like me. After air throw in the corner we link into 2A or 2B and go for the standard jC j2C j214B combo. That 2A/2B link is a quite tricky, but you can always GUARANTEE it will go off if you mash 2A/2B. Why should I have to break my fingers like an idiot to get a move out? IT's like playing a shitty quick time event. A good example of a well designed link is the timing of j22C and God Hand during her infamous punish combo. They are spacing and height dependent, rather than requiring inhuman reflexes or mashing. They are a bit tricky to pull off consistently, but reasonably so.

  34. "Why is BlazBlue so noob friendly" is so funny to me. Ah yes BlazBlue, a game known for being easy and accessable.

  35. It's so funny to see these arguments used way back then be used now. Time is truly a flat circle.

  36. Lucie’s Guard [8th Apostle of the Twelve] says:

    Real talk if timmy wants to play no one can stop timmy because believe me he will play

  37. There’s a saying in my language that goes: There is nothing new under the ☀️. It means that history repeats itself.

  38. Imo a game is only as difficult as the opponent. If the game is "hard", you're gonna lose to a better player either way. If the game is easy, you're still losing to the better player.

    A lot of the buffer stuff barely matters in the end cause you have to time delayed buttons to get a lot of the good stuff out of any character.

  39. just found the channel. awesome content.

    I remember when everyone was super mad about SF IV back in the day.

    also, if execution is easier but you do not know the fundamentals of the game you can know all the moves and combos and still lose everytime you play against someone who knows his fundamentals.

  40. Lmao I wish we could go back and tell people "you just wait ,we gonna all be playing in stylish mode and dps will be the hardest imput to do"

  41. I think that Stylish/Beginner mode (like in Blazblue or Arcana Hearts 3) is the way to go. Make the game more challenging for the hardcore and lab monsters, that will be able to do optimal combos and shit, and add the Stylish mode for casual gamers that just want to mash buttons and don't want to deal with imputs and execution, they will be able to do easy basic combos and easy to do specials and supers, and have fun with little effort. With Stylish mode you can even play with people that haven't even heard of the game, and still have a fun match. I like this much better than autocombos implemented in the normal game (like Persona or Dragonball)

    The thing is giving options to the players, options on how they want to aproach and enjoy the game.

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