STOP NERFING FIGHTING GAMES : Max Rants
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They did this with Mortal Kombat! For me Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance has the best, longest, most complex, coolest combos! What do you think?
the problem in my opinion is the lack of playerbase, if there's no low skill casual playerbase the less people are gonna be compelled to try to play against other players that are so vastly better at the game than they are.
this wasn't as much as a problem in the past because you could play with your friends or other people that was around the same level of skill level as you without needing to actually practice practice practice to a good enough skill level before they could start enjoying the game.
for example look at UMVC3, it doesn't take a whole lot of practice to do combos or let alone be enjoyable at a surface level, but there's lots of intricacies in the game, but because there's really no low level players in that game that i can just have a fun casual match with it becomes very apparent that i need to either learn the intricacies or stop playing the game, but it doesn't have to be that way.
i want a game that has lots of depth and complexity but doesn't force me to be able to know everything before i can start enjoying it.
simple as that.
by virtue of just having a bigger playerbase the more casuals you are gonna have and the more casual playerbase you have the less frightened the new players have to be of the actual game.
and it has nothing with how complex or how deep the system is.
as it is right now fighting games are in a state of elitism and forced to make the game easier as a whole for the newer players to catch up to veteran players on a mechanical level.
is it the right decision? no, because you are taking away the bells and whistles from the game that people can strive to get to later on.
Never have I bought a fighting game because of mechanics. It's is most likely the trailer that will draw me into it.
Give us marvel vs capcom 2 for current gen !
Also known as MK11
The less mechanically deep a game is, the less there is to learn, to do, and to experience.
The high level players will quit early, but the lower skilled people will grow bored because there's only a handful of ways to play the game.
The more mechanics, the more variation, the more there is to do.
As dumb as it sounds, I think fighting games are like martial arts in that yeah of course it’s gonna be hard to start off in, but that is was makes it fun and you can always infinitely improve so it shouldn’t be watered down or else it’ll feel like it isn’t the real thing at a certain point
Speak brotha Max! Speak!!
Some people decry the concept of nerfs. Some people love it.
I think of it this way: when a country arms itself with nuclear warheads, should we focus on disarmament of nukes across the board to prevent nuclear warfare, or do we arm everyone with nukes so every war is just mutually assured destruction?
Not a perfect analogy, I know, but that’s just my thought process
Yeaaah Max i agree with 😑
Thank you g finally it's said
You're 100% nailed it. I started off on Street Fighter V and eventually got bored with it and gravitated toward Tekken. SFV was easy to learn, but I didn't appreciate that. It actually became a turn-off because there was no room to be creative and barely any execution to master. Basically, it just felt dull. Tekken was overwhelming at first and at times still is, but I love that about it. Especially now when most games are being dumbed down more and more. And judging by Tekken's 7's success, I'm definitely not alone.
Take what you said and apply it to mortal kombat and that’s exactly how i feel.. mortal kombat games have always been FUCKING CRAZY OFF THE WALL SHIT CRAZY COMBOS PEOPLES HEADS BEING RIPPED OFF EVERY TWO SECONDS ALL OF IT! But in mk11 while yes the fatalities are easily the best and graphically it’s easily the best looking mk game it’s just not fun.. every time your open does something unsafe you do the same string into the same combo every. Single. Time. It’s honestly boring. I tried so hard to enjoy that game I played nothing but mk11 for about 5 months straight and I just couldn’t take it anymore. I want to enjoy mk11 so badly (mk is my favorite game franchise) but I just can’t. It’s the most stale wheat bread tortilla chip game in the series. I just hope their next fighting game (hopefully it’s injustice 3 as I love the first two) is good and fun to play and has multiple combo strings for ever character. They tried to hard to make it easier.
Edit: I decided to try out nightwolf when he came out and just like every other character I got to the point where I was doing the same thing every match and wanted a new character to play with. Decided to take a break with the game until terminator came out labbed him for about 2 hours and realized I just wasn’t having fun and stopped playing and completely skipped over sindel. I pray spawn and joker are the answers.
Why they don't do the opposite. Add more characters make the mechanics more challenging as time goes with dlc or whatever. That way hardcore fighters will be more invested in the long term.
So, you want to beat your opponent by just being better at execution instead of having better game-sense and mind games?
I can’t even stress this enough…. not just fighting games 😳 so many other games have a history of toning things down for the sake of new players and they just end up killing their game….
7:10 No max… Smash Ultimate actually removed a lot of competitive elements. There is zero universal movement techniques perfect pivoting and extended dash dancing were flat out removed, DI and Smash DI has been neutered to the point where combos are very linear, and because of the universal changes like run speed and lower landing lag every one is afraid to approach because things are almost impossible to punish on reaction and matches often end up being overly campy and now neutral tends to be just spamming 1 or 2 safe moves into a set play combo.
Im still a firm believer that you can lower the skill floor of a fighting game, but have a skill ceiling as high as it was before, if not higher
Why the Nerf You may Ask? Nerf was made to Nerf Cheap Character like Meta Knight. It Also Nerf Op and Unfair Character that make them Rage Quit. I saying that Play Nice Play Fair mean We here to have Fun, Not Rage Quit, Toxic, Salty, Troll, Hackers, and Cheating. But no worry, your can have freedoms Offline.
Strongly disagree with your Smash conclusions.
Ultimate did way better than Smash 4 because the install base of Wii U was astronomically lower than that of the Switch. Also, Melee was a far more technical game than Brawl, and Brawl absolutely destroyed it in sales.
So what you are basically saying is keep fighting games hype
"characters sell fighting games."
I'm here from 2020. Isn't it great that they buffed Street Fighter V, even a little?
If that was the case Fantasy Strike and Dive Kick will be number one
Dude I just had Skullgirls in my wishlist cuz I thought the designs were quirky and the animations were neat. My friend bought it for me on my birthday, I didnt know what the fuck I was doing, it was my first MvCesque fighter, but I fucking powered through that shit cuz Squigly and Big band looked really cool on screen.
I sucked at street fighter 4..but I didn't give up…and ended up with an A rank Ryu. All it takes is hard work and dedication.
IF YOU HAVE A SUCCESSFUL GAME, WHY DO YOU EXPECT TO REACH A WIDER AUDIENCE WITH A SEQUEL WHEN YOU TAKE OUT THE THINGS PEOPLE LIKED IN THE PRIOR ENTRIES?!
This shit is so frustrating to me, because it's one of the most common and bone-headed business mistakes in history, not even just in gaming (or even business for that matter). And it's always avoidable, too, because people have been learning this exact lesson without any variation for literally centuries. (Bethesda is critically guilty of this, BTW) If there's one piece of evergreen advice when you want to sell things to people, it's this:
APPEAL TO YOUR BASE! THEIR EVANGELISM IS NECESSARY FOR EXPANDING YOUR AUDIENCE!
Literally three things sell fighting games to normies and you don't even need all of them: The spectacle/gamefeel of the moment to moment fighting, lots of content, and good story modes.
Mortal Kombat is the perennial example; the series is bigger and bigger with each entry and the reason why is made self evident by the fatality and character interaction compilations that get millions of views on Youtube.
As long as they don't outright suck, the depth and skill ceiling are entirely irrelevant to expanding the player base to new people. Ruining that stuff just pisses off the people who convince the normies to buy fighting games in the first place.
I often prefer low tier characters anyway cause nobody expects to get there ass handed to them by one of the worst characters
One of the most popular and long-lasting fighting games around has some of the most technical options in any fighting game. Smash Melee.
L-cancelling, wave dashing, SHFFLing, wave landing, ledge dashing, crouch canceling, double jump cancels, B reversals, shield drops, dash dancing, pivots, parries/perfect shielding, wall jump combos – all of these are situational techniques that require precise execution and/or timing.
They require a lot of practice to be able to do consistently and a lot of practice to be able to figure out when and why they’re good mid-game. They’re so hard to do that the community has had to mod the game with controller fixes just to make sure that every GameCube controller can perform them consistently.
This is all in a 20+ year old game with no training mode, no online, no support from the main developer, Hell the vast majority of this tech was discovered and documented by the community over the years. And it is still an extremely popular fighting game.
If you make a good fighting game at its core, with good presentation and engaging mechanics, and your fighting game is accessible and easy to get into… it doesn’t matter how hard it is to master. Lots of players will love it and get as into it as they can, and the pros will learn the advanced tech. Getting rid of the advanced tech doesn’t make the game any more fun for casuals.
I think that the core problem is that companies dont invest in the only way to introduce players, the tutorials. Is so frustraiting that you try to understand the game, but the game itself only care in said to you how to punch.
All the modern fighting games now trying to be like Super Turbo.
So if they want sales they shouldn't make fighting games more accessible they should make it more attractive through graphics and characters.
Controversies on tier list kinda started when Dan was released in SFA. People razed hell. Yet, there was people who wanted to get good with him, and a lot of people did.
You're right about the options thing. Skullgirls has a lot of options, for beginners and advanced
This what happens when you let top tier players abuse overpowered characters! Simple!!
But if you do big or somewhat big combos you’ll big damage or enough damage. It’s no fun just button mashing, and zoning/being a chicken shit and claim “it’s a legit strategy”, it’s just annoying and, it pisses everyone off.
There's both a right way and wrong way to dumb down things tbh.
One example of the wrong way is BBTag.
This video needs to have like millions of views. This way of "castrating" fighting games, making them "easier" is a fucking plague. Look at STRIVE!! They fell into the same trap..
this is true unless you are guilty boi xxx2 accent core plus reloaded HD remix the new generation a badguy in time
When experimental players say how new players feel
i dont even counter argument the main point of the video just wanna say:
I dont think smash is a good example, for example, if a want to play with friends street fighter… with different skill levels.. but not absurdly different , yet its gonna get boring very fast.. i mean, sf2, sfa, sf3, sf4, dont matter really, even the same about mk, and other fighting games, but smash? smash i can play a lot with people with different skills, cause.. there is so many ways to play.. and so random you can put.. and the controls are so easy.. even if there is really hard mechanics, combos, etceteras, the base is very very simple.
But my argument dont end here, smash is a homage to other games, so many games, so, lets say.. i dont like fight games.. but hey i love pikachu, i gonna play cause there is pikachu here and, at least in the begin, dont feels like a fighting game at all. But hey ,… there is Link! And bayonetta, and Ryu… and so and so.
This whole convo sounds like MK 11 in a nutshell. The definition of dumbing down a fighting game series.
I think, char list is also a huge thing. Im casual. Its def content. HOWEVER, for me personally… I use to be a big fighter game player and can tell you for me its not mechanics really but the feel of characters. I can play same 3 maps and not care. Can be super complicated or really simple. The look and feel of the characters are what matter to me… If that makes sense. Also button mapping but most fighting games nowadays have a way change that. Use to be means in early 2,000's…. What's odd about fighting games for me… Story doesn't matter, character design does. It feels odd say that because im a huge rpg player… But thats how i feel.
Nerf them or watch the genre die
I think marketing and brand recognition is why the big fighting games have the popularity they do (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Smash, etc) and I feel like Guilty Gear and other anime/SNK games will still their own little niche for people who really like fighting games, and that’s ok
What competitive elements did they expand or add in ultimate? Lol as an ultimate competitor I completely disagree with you there.
They removed perfect pivoting, power shielding, customs, untechable footstools, most ladder combos, and nerfed a lot of defensive options like grabbing, throw confirms, and item throwing out of shield. Ultimate players complain a lot about how watered down the game is compared to Wii U and how campy it is.
Street fighter Vs an american tail
Hi! I'm from the future, and this video makes me worry about GG Strive ;-;
i am a really casual player and …. it is important to know that loosing or winning is not everythink. It is fun to build up ur own level with Character . I have a very nice Fightjoystick , iam better with it because i love Street Fighter .. and the game with it is just amazing … the result is going to b e there some day some days not, it is important to know too reach leve of Max it is somethink close impossible for me but …. ok so ?? Enjoy the Fight