STOP NERFING FIGHTING GAMES : Max Rants
Maximilian Dood
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28.11.2021
As someone who sucks at doing long combo strings I love 3rd strike and yes hands down has the best sound track in fighting game history
I love autocombo-finesses in dbfz in the sense that they usually have unique properties, track and autospace, all of which can be manipulatable by timing, making meaningful difference not only in combo-routes, but also neutral and mixups. Most importantly, they establish hitclock-differentials: sloppy, expensive neutral with basic combos necessitates about 4 touches per character, while most other situations ask for 3-2, with a select few being tods.
Best speech ever
Nothing turns a person off faster from a fighting game then when you get rid of their favorite character or make their favorite character bad you want a good fighting game make sure your characters are balance it's less about the mechanics and more about the character balance I'm going to give you some examples. I'm playing Soul Calibur 6 one of my favorite fighting games of all-time Soul Calibur series not Soul Calibur 6 and I'm noticing I got chrysandra a person who plays with a short sword and shield and she's barely faster than people who are playing with large bulky weapons and I'm wondering to myself is why can they swing this giant sword just as fast if I can swing my short sword because the game's not balanced Soul Calibur has turned into a cartoon I used to consider Soulcalibur and more action-packed Bushido Blade now it's more like Street Fighter with swords. You want a fighting game to be easy to get into but difficult to master because of the difficulty of your favorite character to master is what keeps you playing getting better with the character. You should be able to easily win with the bass stuff but if you really want to style with the character Mastery should be required. A big problem with modern fighting games is the characters have no new ones to them you can play with a character for 5 minutes and pretty much the everything they have to offer back in the day you can play with a character from months then fuck around and finding you move. Which is why training mode should never come with complete move list.
The most iconic Max Rants.
Graphics and characters.
Bro thats cool ass shirt
i think nintendo are bad examples of good selling games cause it has a bunch of hardcore fans that are gonna buy whatever comes out of them
A year late but what about '09 Babies like me? I grew up along OG MK and co., but couldn't care to wrap my head around the fine details. I got back in with SF4. I practised and practised and practised. I got "pretty good" by my own standards. Although the big roster and cool graphics and nice overall presentation and style sold me on it. And I worked my baby ass off trying to get gud with Gouken, even when he was an unlockable.
I guess the answer is "be interesting and fun with lots of content." LOL
I thought dragonball fighterz did okay at simplifying but it still has hard combos and tech.
"Scorpman is fighting Batmion" – Max 2019
I got in to KOF because it looked so intresting and hard to do cool combos
Exactly why I stopped playing SFV. it felt dumbed down :/
I've always been a casual F-Game player since 1997 PS1 with Tekken 2 was one of my first games. The last F-Game I bought was DOA5LR. What I want is content multiple game modes, characters, costumes and fun gameplay which isn't dumbed down. I don't buy F – Games anymore because they ship with very little content and sell huge amounts of DLC such as SCVI selling back old characters, and DOA6 having over $100 of DLC. I can't comment about T7 but I heard negative statementss when it released. I want plenty of content like F – Games from the 5th, 6th and 7th Gen. I don't like being ripped off so I avoid these games now which is a shame and just replay my old F – Games.
I think that motion input is what makes people afraid to try fighting games.
Just this, motion input.
I really dont understand why some people try fighting games as if they are not games. They are like any other genre of games, just like RPGs or RTSs. I say this because there is a history of people getting mad at different types of games because they water down the mechanics. Such is the case of Civ 6, where people were angry because instead of expanding the mechanics, they toned them down from Civ 5. Same with Skyrim after Oblivion for RPGs: Skyrim is a much simpler game compared to Oblivion, and much more forgiving, but guess what: you could fight freaking dragons, you could send a motherfucker into the next week with a spell. Thats whay sells a game, whether it is a RTS, an RPG or a FG, the cool shit, the satifying shit. Ultimately the FUN you can have with the game…
I doubt anyone will see this, but they also need better tutorial systems to help with actually learning the mechanics well. I liked how Tekken 7 actually had the "practice" character attack and it taught the timing of the counter or what would work well with what. Now that was a nice thing, but I still do not play 7 much because I cannot really get the "3d" movements down. Yet I just wish fighting games had better introductions to teaching all of the mechanics.
I play fighting games because they look fucking cool man end of story
I loved this Ted Talk
Going from SF1 to SF2 they made the mechanics simple to execute. So i disagree with Max’s argument. In SF3 they made mechanics that were for hard core fans and that game didn’t sell well. I’ll say that the roster plays a role in why it didn’t sell well back in the day. SF4 is the perfect balance. I think DBFZ is good too.
Look at these dumbass in the comment saying they want nerfing. Okay. Fix broken characters not nerfing. How about that?
Execution is bigger barrier than mechanics. Games like power rangers and Dbfz are perfect examples of how to not sacrifice depth by making things more accessible. And they're more fun tbh.
Tell all this to yourself when you speak about Guilty gear strive. Cheers!
When a fighting game is too simple it will die after a couple of months. Also if think about why marvel vs Capcom did so well before Is because the characters in the game
I'd actually argue that blazblue pulled off an incredible feat with its accessibility by making it so that the rudimentary stuff you do while completely new is still satisfying while knowing that there's an upward trajectory and one hell of a skill ceiling.
Very, very, very late to this one, but the reason that simplifying mechanics doesn't sell games is very, well, simple: You don't experience the mechanics until you actually play the game. Characters? Graphics? Stages? You get to see those beforehand. How easy/difficult it is to pull off a combo? Yeah, good luck showing that in the trailer or on the cover art.
This reminded me of how Street Fighter V was the Anti Smash Bros Ultimate at release. It pissed off the hardcore AND the casuals. It was dumbed down and lacked content to sink into.
Maybe I just enjoy high difficulty, but wouldn’t telling a new player “this game is easy and simplified” be kind of condescending or even offensive. You do not even give these new players a chance to experience what truly advancing your skills is like.
Thank god I’m not the only person who hates fighting games getting nerfs
What makes a fighting game good are the number of meaningful options and the balance. However, the focus should be on decision making, and button inputs should only be as complex as necessary to accommodate the amount of meaningful options – anything beyond that is wasteful and bad.
In this respect, I think Fantasy Strike deserves a lot of praise, just like Smash Bros.
8:25 Pretty much this
"Toning down the options you have." What exactly does Max mean with this? One of the usual complaints I see when he mentions, for example, Street Fighter V, is that Max usually says "you don't have many options", but never really goes into detail of what are those options. If it's options regarding character and gameplay variety, the game is entirely designed around a mechanic that gives characters more stuff to do or makes them better at what they're already good at.
SamSho actually did it once before. With Warrior's Rage… Let's not talk about that one…
No wonder G is his main .the man feels like a president
Don't make games easier, make them easier to understand. Better tutorials and better netcode is all you need.
watching this vid makes me nervous for guilty gear strive
what is your opinion about fantasy strike
I somewhat disagree and its to do with the launch of a game you will sell many games if it looks really good and be graphic gifted and super cool moves. However after the first 6-8 weeks of its release it's the hardest game to play online and casuals are getting battered and just get disheartened with social media the overall sales would probably drop. The average gamer doesn't want to spend all that time and effort. The only people that will buy the game after that are fighting game enthusiasts. As to the great players beating on the bad players after the first week the good players are so many ranks higher that it doesn't matter anymore the field of play levels.
Has any dev taken his advice yet?
DBFZ is kinda becoming like that. C assists are ridiculous and some auto combos have too much return.
"I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about them. But I'm also talking about you." That is like something out of a sitcom, brilliant.
Lmao that’s too funny. The few people who complain about the “high skill barrier” or “high skill combos” won’t be happy even if you gave them a win button. They would refuse to use it and bitch about how they lost to someone who pressed “win”
Basically the way it goes. Adding in people like that to a gaming community just adds toxicity to it. Not for too long cause those people quit after a few months. But like you said, it’s not about growing the community, it’s about selling just oooone more copy
one thing i was thinking when (i constantly play instead of online, cause on wifi) arcade mode in SFV. fuck the barrel mini game. fuck the 'break the car' mini game.
make mini games based on shit the player struggles with. IE missing a lot of anti airs? give them a mini game that scores them on anti air hits. blocking low too often, getting hit by over heads? mini game when you need to block the attack appropriately, switching between low/mid/OH.
that is the only way i can actually see game devs bridging the gap.
I agree, but I will say I love that new fighting games have been putting a lot of time and work into tutorials modes.
16:39 he said strive he's a time traveler
Max is right on the money like the only reason I am going to try out the Guilty Gear: Strive demo and even considering buying it is solely because I really like Faust's design
Don't mess with the core, mess with the stuff outside it. Like max said the visuals the satisfying connection are what get people buying, it's why anime arena fighters sell so well, yeah the fanbase is supporting but a lot of the hits you connect feel like the have a lot of impact and they have a shitton of fan favorite characters despite the fact that a majority of those arena fighters are not exactly good.
I have two words:
Accessable Dipswitches
counterpoint: the problem is not mechanics, nor fun stuff to do or mechanics. The welcoming package is. A new player in a fighting game needs someone to teach him. you say when you start a game like god of war you end playing like a master, a fighting game has no tools for teaching a new player in a meaningful and not patronizing way how to play. God of war kind of games use the game to teach you the game. Fighting games have NOTHING that helps new players, the history modes are jokes, the com plays in unreal and absolutely maddening ways. Let's not talk about bosses like any snk boss or even capcom for that matter (i'm looking at you seth) that are either gods or chumps against a player. New players need teachers in a fighting game, and gamers are not good teachers. Tekken list with 700 moves on a tutorial is not good, snk combo challenges are for the pros, not the newbies, and movement tutorials present in every fightning game are laughably bad. We need that the history modes train new players in a safe enviroment, to get them ready for 1 v 1 game. Right now, learning a fighting game is not a game, is a chore.
This is not a fighting game problem, it's a problem that span all of gaming. Publishers cather to the vocal minority who don't really like games they just want to be part of the trend, without putting in any of the effort