REAL TALK: The State of Matchmaking in Fighting Games... - lightslingergame.com

REAL TALK: The State of Matchmaking in Fighting Games…

Maximilian Dood
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#kofxv #online #matchmaking

While fighting games have made huge strides in improving their online connectivity through rollback netcode implementation, they are still coming up very short in another important area: the online matchmaking. Max discusses the current state of fighting game matchmaking, and how it can be improved for future titles.

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90 Comments

  1. Quitting a video game for its online, well what about its offline content? Oh nevermind, that's only a casual player thing to do. Seriously, you guys just need a fighting game that has online only and that to be the main focus. I know you guys are willing to pay the full price of a video game that would have Online mode only and settings. I don't know, I find it crazy to not play a game anymore because I can't play other people online. I'm saying this because I don't think the online will never get better, so its back to playing against the CPUs or just hope you have other people to play with offline, that's how it was back than before online was a thing and that's how it should be now going forward with video games. If the online is going to suck anyways then they just shouldn't have it and they would have to put that extra development time with single player content, I miss those days man, forget this online stuff I never had a good experience with it anyways.

  2. Maximillian Dood, you might want to have a look and test for yourself if the MM of KOFXV is broken on PSN and Live, because when researching this topic i did tests on the MM on PSN and it was working, when i asked why people where saying that it was broken i received this answer:

    – PC is Broken we don't care if PSN works PC is broken so everything is broken!

    people play KOFXV daily on PSN, test for yourself because i don't believe that the MM on the consoles are broken till i see a video prove of it (that btw don't exists as far as i know)

  3. I'm qued up for a kof ranked match while watching this. Will I find a match? Who knows!

    Update: I did not find a match

  4. I wish I knew kof15 match making was broken I got it on xbox but just couldn't find a match. Thinking it might be coz the fighting as less popular on xbox. I ended up getting it on playstation same thing happened. Eventually i gave up playing which is a shame coz i really wanted to learn a kof game. Luckily each time I purchased the game I had vouchers so only spent like £10 all together.

  5. I bought Guilty gear for 30 euros to fight 3 crazy gusys that break me in seconds, then wait 10 minutes or more to wait for someone to come. Its really frustrating.

  6. Ironically quick matchmaking has become an issue for Melee because people can so easily quit out and requeue into another player to play the instant they crack the sads lmao

  7. KOF is trash online 🗑, Tekken is also trash online….man I really don't respect fighting games. AT ALL!

  8. It is incredible that in Mexico, where kof is a religion, I do not find a fight that even lasts more than 10 minutes. the game is amazing, but it's frustrating to find people to play good games with.

  9. It seems like just yesterday we were fighting tooth and nail for rollback netcode. Then we won, only to get sucker punched by all the other glaring issues that we ignored before because there were bigger fish to fry. When can we finally be at peace 😔

  10. yeah i get that as well i have more fun playing a fighting game with friends then randoms and the matchmaking system its likely cause im australian the matchmaker has a hard time finding opoments at my level and yeah i get the same god tier pro and im just used as a laggy punching bag never getting out of the loweest rank this was at its worst on SkullGirls ( air juggled forever ) and Street fighter 5 with all the A.I hacked players farming fight money

  11. "KOF 15 matchmaking still not working"
    Parsec and AWS: Hold my beer

  12. I literally had no idea that's been happening. I've totally been getting matches. This is actually the first I've heard of this.

  13. Who would have known that a Wii U game was the PS5 of matchmaking

  14. Thats it. Fighting games are truly about the competition, about self improvement and about overcoming the challenge.

    15 years ago in 2007 I was studying abroad in South Korea. I had a huge crew of friends from all over the world. Internationals but also native Koreans, one big family. One of those good friends was from the US. He was older and more mature as teenage me and became something like a bigger brother to me. Someone could absolutely trust, get advise from and just have a good time with. We partied, we chilled and hung with our big crew of international and Korean friends every weekend until the break of dawn. Lots of hangovers and crazy stories. But one day we found an arcade. Since its Korea they got a huge arcade scene even still in 2007. They had a classic Street Fighter 2 Turbo machine. He suggested we get some coins and play. He asked me if I know how to play? I grew up on SF2 in the 90s and was confident, even cocky and told him its on.
    We both sat down, put in our coins and pressed our start buttons simultaneously.
    And was in for a rude awakening.
    He was a god. He was incredible with Ryu. I jump, perfectly timed anti air dp. I try to open him up, flawless footsies and not dropping a single combo. Consistent fireball pressure and dp in my face if I jump over.
    He didnt know how to play 3rd Strike and SF4 wasnt even released yet. He was an OG who was older than me. And I grew up in the 90s which meant he grew up during the golden arcade age in the US. He only knew how to play SF2 but was unparalleled in it.
    It was 2007 so just before SF4 came out and rebooted the age fighting games and completely resurrected the FGC. Funny how we were both two guys playing an old game in a Korean arcade to remember old times when we were just a year away from the biggest revival of fighting games and video games becoming total mainstream in general. Anyways, he was a beast. I couldnt take a single round of him. Got perfected half of the time. And had to get lucky to touch him. And I was a guy that knew fighting games growing up on SF2,3 Tekken3,4, Soul Calibur, Smash and many others. I was one of the best from where Im from. But compared to him I was a scrub. He beat me hundreds of times. I was stubborn. I was determined. I was passionate. I would not give up. would challenge him throughout a whole year over and over, it became a ritual and both of our thing. Every weekend we would hit up the arcade. Sometimes during the week when I run into him. I dont know how many coins I threw in that machine.
    “Another one” “Ah! This time I got you!”
    “One more time!” “This time I figured you out!” “Damn it!”
    He’d beat me consistently. And I mean kicking my ass in all ways, shapes and forms.
    Most of the weekends we would hang with our big international family of friends at our regular bars getting drunk and partying. Some nights him and me met some Korean cuties and sat down with them to drink, just having a good time.

    But I shit you not then the challenge called me and I’d tell my bro “its time”. And we ditch the girls and would head to the arcade to play some STREET FIGHTER II! Trust me, many guys thought we were crazy. They saw me and my bro meeting some beautiful Korean girls who looked like idols. The girls were into us too. But no, the challenge has called. He loved my persistence and wanted to keep his titles as undefeated. So he didnt throw me any bones. Instead of being a dick and saying he wont play anymore because he is scared to get that one loss someday he accepted the challenge every time. One, whole, year. Day after day.
    And me? I was just completely consumed with the desire to beat him. To get better at this game. To overcome this challenge. Get better. It was also a mirror Ryu vs Ryu. Then after 6 month or so I managed to take a round. My heart was pounding when I saw his life bar at just a pixel, every movement with surgical execution, observing his Ryu and see exactly what he is doing. I couldnt seal the deal and choked on the final round. Despair.
    I never forget the moment after almost a year when I finally beat him. I didnt realize how I got better. Imagine playing the same better player for months. I studied all his style, his small nuances in his decision making progress, his habits, his signature combos and moves.
    When I finally took two rounds from him I jumped across the arcade, stood on top of the stools and threw my fists in the air and screamed. Then I fell to the floor and rolled around like a lunatic. My bro whipped out his old phone (this was before smartphones) and filmed it all.
    I felt like I achieved something incredible something seemingly impossible to overcome. My bro and his unfathomable skill at this game he mastered for decades, being able to beat this even just once felt like besting a towering giant with sheer will power.
    What I realized years later is that I was basically labbing. Every time I player and I lost I learned something new. It made me better, gave me thick skin, developed my sense, my reaction, my execution. I learned the most important lesson for fighting games and frankly any sport or competition in life. You only get better if you lose. And if you keep losing you get better. As they say, the difference of a winner and a loser is the winner got back up on his feet one more time.
    We both went back home to our home countries. I ended up returning to Korea after studies for work because I fell in love with the country. He went back to the US to work. He probably got married, settled down and never played SF2 again. Its been about 15 years since we hung out. My life is very different. Im not the teenage boy I was back then and but in my 30s now. Older than the age my big bro was when we met. Living my life. But Im still play fighting games in my free time. And Im happy how gaming has become the norm now, not the unusual. Its completely mainstream now and fighting games go through another renaissance as we speak.

    This was a lengthy anecdote about my fighting game experiences.
    But I wanna say I totally agree with you.
    This same mentality of never giving up. It makes winners. When I play online fighting games now I have the same mentality. I make friends with players online and if they are better Im excited to try to beat them. Push myself. See how far I can go. This is how I become a better player and winning against someone finally after becoming better is one of the most rewarding experiences ever.

    Fight on, brotha.

  15. One thing that makes Tekken online such a chore is the time you spend waiting between matches, EVEN REMATCHES, the game has a wait.

  16. Long post but… Sys Engineer with some thoughts…

    The more I think about this stuff, the more it feels like game devs really need to start diversifying their base with people from other areas of IT and software development. Maybe I'm off-base, not sure, but this has been going on for so long it's hard to imagine a mainline solution presenting itself unless they bring in more diverse technical talent. I know things always seem easier from a distance, but this is a fairly easy system to break down from a service delivery perspective. Technically complex? Sure, you need the code and design to back up the individual pieces, but just beyond that layer there should be a clear plan to really make it all cohesive. Hard to imagine it's a question of having the capital to make that possible… but it would really suck if that's the case.

    The fact that these people make video games professionally (fighting or otherwise) is not lost on me. I'm not a game dev. Maybe that's the point tho? Don't have to argue it much either, just look around. The biggest names in fighting games mess this up so consistently it has become the expectation. That's not how you do business.

    Would love to be a fly on the wall in some of their meetings (no company in particular) just to see how they manage projects, teams and really craft those ideas then execute on them.

  17. The player base for this game dropped fast. Great characters but way to hard to get into.

  18. i knew it during open beta 1st Samurai Showdown 2nd KOF XV 😄 they should take KOF XV behind the barn then shoot it 💀 and move on

  19. This is why when it comes to online beta, they shouldn't add training room/lab in the first place, so they could've prevented this issue in the first place. Now we just have to wait for them to fix the issue that might have been caught early on.

  20. Now something to break this, a mode that makes matchmaking noobs versus pros. ALWAYS!

  21. If you want to see that "Woolie Interview" look for:
    How to Save Fighting Games – Castle Super Beast Animated

  22. Maybe stop paying 40bucks for "seasons passes" that add nothing but a couple characters they might decide to actually put some effort into the actual game. Instead of getting it out quick and then selling hundreds of bucks worth of extra characters and recolours.

  23. if strive matchmaking only took under 10 seconds i would be in heaven oh god

  24. strive essentially only has 3 floors/ranks now 9-10-celestial

  25. KOF has to be the most frustrating experience as a beginner. The tutorials are, like most fight games, pathetic. They never really tell you how to deal with situations, just what the buttons do. The mission mode makes no sense: do they really think beginers are going to benefit from them? Do beginners really need to learn combos over fundamentals?

    But the matchmaking is a mess. Upwards of thirty minutes waiting to be matched with someone who turns out to be beyond my skill level to the point the experience is just soul destroying. I don't expect to win, but at least match me against someone reasonably close to me in _ranked_!

    Someone who is 0-30 is not the equal of someone that's been playing for months possibly years but has the same w/l percentage.

    Honestly it's about time fight game developers, and the communities they pander to, stepped outside their bubbles, took a look around and saw what actually works. Unlike this game's netcode. it's rolled back to the point no one can be found

  26. Waited 45 minutes for p4au 2 months after releases

    Waited 15 minutes for smash bros on the 3ds…6 months after ultimates released

  27. the fact the dev hasnt said anything much about it is they when they were developing it something major was broken in the code and framework of the game deep down

  28. MK11 matchmaking is pretty good, decent playerbase size and you can deny matches if your opponents ping is dog ass

  29. Agreed with GGS's current system. I'm stuck between floors 8 and 9, and sometimes there are literally nobody on those floors. Have to go to floor 10 and get my ass handed to me nonstop. Good practice, though.

  30. I deeply regret paying full price for the trash fire that is KoFXV. At least I didn't get the season pass I wouldn't use anyway.

  31. The only time terrible matchmaking bothers me is when fighting games actively give their Offline content the side eye. Street fighter 5 had bad matchmaking, but they added a bunch of shit to their offline section so I could still play the game and do cool shit. Sure it was AI, but beating my high scores on arcade mode and seeing all the character endings was fun. But there are some games that give that stuff the shaft and focuses on the online content, which fucking sucks if they have terrible matchmaking.

  32. Anytime Pokken is brought up in a positive light is a win for me.

  33. update 06/04/2022: is kof xv's matchmaking still broken? yes.

  34. you thought we were done cause we got rollback? your could not be more wrong we still have a long way to go till we get cross play and decent matchmaking the struggle is real….

  35. Basically why I stopped Strive. Spent more time in the stupid ass lobby than in game

  36. Took me 1 hour to find a single match. I turned it off after cause it takes too long

  37. It baffles me that fighting games could be in this state.

    I'll be honest, I don't know anything about netcode. I just know you would want as low latency as possible, and a way to hide as much latency as possible. I presume that's what this "rollback" netcode does. So however hard the problem may be, it sounds like there is/are known solutions.

    Basic functional matchmaking should not be difficult. It has 2 requirements from what I understand – skill level matching and connection quality.
    Connection quality seems like it should be a simple latency/bandwidth test. Dead simple checkbox filter.
    For skill matching, just slap in an ELO system and boom! – bare minimum requirements met. I know some people don't like ELO. Maybe it isn't the best solution. But it is well documented and understood, and it does work which seems like an upgrade over what you guys have now.

    Having to jump around to different menus just to start looking for the next match just sounds like they don't have anyone with a basic understanding of UI/UX. Are the graphic artists the only ones involved in designing the UI? Because that's what it sounds like. Good UX is difficult, sure. But there's some low-hanging fruit that nobody seems to be going for.

    Crossplay is just down to corporate greed on the platform holder side. The devs don't care where you buy the game, they just want to sell more copies. But the platform holders only want you to buy it for their platform.

  38. Wasn't even aware that there was a problem with the KOF matchmaking, I just thought nobody was playing, glad I was wrong haha

  39. What do you think of playing vs AI only? I always enjoyed that since im a casual player.

  40. Hey Max, it is still broken and despite all the information that we gave to SNK they did nothing. i feel cheated and gonna demand refund from them because this is not what they promised. Please make a video, podcast or something about it.

  41. I just picked this game up and yeah I thought something was up with the online.. thanks for clarifying. Hopefully spring of 2023 when they implement crossplay into this game. All this bullshit will be fixed.. sticking with it! Great game!

  42. Holy sh*t this was published a year ago! And it’s still a problem!!

  43. 6:18
    Because of the poor tutorials and my experience with matchmaking this is how I feel towards the rest of Season 2 and Season 3 of KOF.
    The tutorials suck and the matchmaking is horrible
    I don't care what new characters they have coming in season 2 and 3 because the overall game is PISS.
    I don't even want them to fix the game anymore I just want my money back

  44. I bought Kof15 it was a mistake since I'm qued up against people who have hundreds of rounds over me and it doesn't help that it takes awhile. It's the same 4 people to.

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