Rambling About The State Of Modern Fighting Games
Koefficient
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This is just a ramble that I went on my livestream about fighting games let me know of your thoughts in the comments thanks guys!
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20.09.2021
Melty is actually surprisingly simple to jump into
Can anyone recommend me a fighting game (preferably an F2P ones)?
Brawlhalla matchmaking is pretty instant too, I just start playing it recently just to waste time and warm up before melty release, and it's been pretty decent so far.
As someone who is out in the countryside. Shit like rollback means absolutely nothing to me if I can’t actually get into the matches in the first place. And Woolie saying the only thing for fighting games to become massive is to work is true facts.
I mean the closest we'll most likely get to the IDEAL fighting game that actually uses online to its advantage it would be one from a developer who understands how to use online.
I'm of course talking about title pending "Project L" from riot games, these lads have solved the online formula for MOBAs with LoL and at least in a online feature sense I think they might just get the closest out of any other developer. (Other qualities such how good the game actually is doesn't matter in the point I'm making just straight up "ONLINE FEATURES").
With the talks about lobbies and online, this is exactly why I played so many Rivals of Aether. Great easy to use lobby that was super quick with a rank for every character (including random) with a overall rank ,rewards for reaching a certain rank like Gold skins , get bonuses for win streaks AND ping display that I barely ever see in FGC titles
This idea gets me so excited for nickeloaden because the devs have openly said they want a great online experience for everyone with great lobbies.
I agree on the dlc practices as I tend to avoid hosting locals for games that have 3-4 Seasons because less people will have setups to bring that have every character.
Thank you finally someone agree with street fighter 4 online rank
I mean im not new to fighting games but honestly i think strive has alot of unintuitive things that would make it harder for new players. I mean yeah It also has things that seem easier. I guess it kinda depends on what you mean by bieng easy for new players to get into. Easy for them to press buttons and do specials (or simple things like that) or easier to actually learn anything past that. I dont think alot of the simplifications (which to me armt necessarily something that makes execution easier) have anything to do with strive bieng successful.
I feel that a glaring weakness most beginners have is when they find something that works, they end up using it as a crutch. Anji's Fuujin is a great example of a crutch. It looks great at first glance as a mixup opportunity but when you realize just how bad it really is, a common mentality is "If it's so bad, do I just not do it anymore?" Of course not. Anji's real intent is ambiguity. Whether it's the autoguard spin or Fuujin followups, all of Anji's tools make the opponent question what his scheme really is and how to approach his pressure.
I understand what people say when they commentate but I can't play fighting games for the life of be but not without trying
It's funny. Brawlhalla, which is a f2p smash like, has a ranking system similar to SFIV and, even if the match are short, it takes little time to get a new match… I guess that's why I play it even if I want to get in other fighting games x'D
Easy fighting games are boring, u take less than 5 minutes to learn how to do the hadoken, that movement is on every fighting game, you have to try… try to learn… tekken and dead or alive are different, when they talk about hard fighting games, they talk about commands and combos, i hate to make combos with the same button ten times with no directional commands, i hate completely and o destroy and humiliates button mashers, except for those who starts button mashing but they try to learn on the go, i feel good for them, u feel realized when u start seeing that your inputs do some special move… with⬇↘➡➕P you have like more than 20 different fighting games that have that combination from capcom, snk, arc system works and many others… you can do the hadoken from street fighter II the wprlf warrior to the gun flame in guilty gear xrd rev 2… fighting games aren't hard u just have to learn and it take less than half an hour to master them…
I like the idea of strive's floor system but I hate it in practice. Once you reach celestial there's no real other goal you can set for yourself unless you play in tournaments which many people, myself included, don't really have time for. I wish there was like 30-40 floors so that the feeling of progress was extended more.
Oh yeah..
Oh yeah. I wish I was there for this cause Id havr a LOT to say.
Tekken 7 does the same kind of ranking. You have a ranking tied to a character and when you hit a certain rank all the other characters will go up in rank just a little bit
I Got Into Fighting Games Through Tekken
And 2D Fighters Are Extremely Awkward For Me
I Still Can't Understand Them
I've never gotten into playing a fighting game and theres primarily 2 reasons.
One, shit online. Theres no excuse not to have good online and for a pvp game, you just need it.
Two, I can't play the game until I've put in A LOT of time practicing. Yes, I can hop in and mash buttons, but thats not playing a fighting game. In order to actually play one match I need to know everything my character can do, be able to execute all of that, and know everything the enemy character can do.
You aren't really playing the same game until you reach that point and getting to that point just isn't fun at all so I lose motivation before I do. Mobas have the same issue BUT you can socialize on a moba and make friends and play together and that carries you through what would otherwise be a real slog. Cause like, you aren't really playing league of legends until you've got 200+ matches under your belt and even then you probably barely know how shit works.
I think thats why smash is so successful. It's very easy to know how to play a character and to execute on playing that character until you get to a higher level where you might want to start at least doing RAR back airs if not adding in some other tech. That's the difference though, you don't need tech to start playing the game. The inputs are just a direction and a button. You don't have to think about what your hands are doing so you can actually play the game, aka look at your opponent and interact with what they are doing. If I pop in even something like strive, I can't do that right out of the gate so the game is basically forced to be unfun until I practice enough.
He is spitting the fact and i agreed with it not all people can maintain too get good in fighting game.. I play fighting game also like tekken the classic one and the guilty gear strive but i think the most fighting game I can get into is FighterZ because you can just smash square button everytime lmao
1. Fighting games will always be niche. The skill required is just too much.
2. They should REMAIN niche. I repeat, they should remain niche.
Virtually everything that goes from niche to mainstream, turns to garbage. The FGC is just fine, it doesn't need to "evolve".
The fgc just doesn't get why fighting games are dying. Or maybe they dont want to get it.
If u don’t enjoy the learning process of the game then u probably aren’t gonna keep playing the game. Part of that learning process is getting folded online, and a lot of people get discouraged when they lose rather than looking at their potential growth. When people lose in fighting games they say “man I’m trash” instead of actually learning, Ls are not losses they’re lessons. Don’t say you’re trash, say u can’t wait to be that good.
I don't know that I agree with the premise. Fighting games aren't that difficult to get into, but they're not that easy to get into either. It's hard to see that from the perspective of someone who plays a lot of fighting games. Losing isn't fun. If you're playing online, you're going to lose a lot at first, and a lot of people just won't stick around for it. If you just want to hit buttons and do stuff, well you'll find that's a lot less punishing in other genres. I think it's less about gitting gud and more about gitting over it.
The learning part is the most awesome part in fighting games. I always get good by playing casual and ranked matchs.
I have been around fighting games for about two years now I’ve played a load of different fighting games from blade Blue Cross tag to Tekken Mortal Kombat Dragonball guilty gear there is one thing I have noticed a lot of people don’t respect skill and a lot of people just decide to abuse characters because they don’t have the time or they don’t want to learn the game properly this might not be correct but it’s been the experience I’ve been having for awhile it’s hard to play these games if you’re gonna get shit just because you’ll try to learn the game this may not be true for everyone but it’s true for me I want to play multi blood but I’ve been scared to continue wind because of that type of mentality Koe what is the one who introduced me to the games and he brings up really good points!.
I played fighting games for 10 years, quit a couple years ago for personal reasons.
Maybe the following ideas might help?
Make the games free to play, because paying 60 to 80$ to just get blown up is discouraging.
Since it will be free, it should always have a flow of people coming in.
It can have purchase packages, where you can buy character bundles or the full game with everything.
Add a battle pass and a currency system.
Sell skins, voice packs, color packs, new characters, etc and make it where you can buy it with the special currency.
I've not looked into fighting games for a long time, so maybe they are doing this at the moment?
Anyways, thanks for the content, have a nice day Koe.
Time is a huge factor as you get older. I gave all of my free time to BBCS/CF while working a 9 to 5. Get off work, come home, GRIND. Then a few online matches to end the night. And I was "Decent".
Then I went to a local tournament and got smoked by college kids who barely study and just grind. It was pretty eye opening.
A thing a lot of fighting games have lost recently is having unlockable content via Single Player Modes or just a good chunk of SP modes in general. Most of the games that I've played (Soul Calibur 2-3, MK 9-Deception-Deadly Alliance, Injustice, BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend) and the many anime-based arena fighters) have been builded with a good part of their modes also available in Single Player like a Story Mode or a Mission/Weapon Master Mode. Unless you are a very small developer like French Bread I expect a lot more content for just playing with the CPU (Story Mode in GG Xrd and Strive doesn't count for me since it's a cutscene collection with no interactions).
Second at least for me is that it does have to click something in me. Even of GG Strive is "beginner-friendly" I don't like how it works due to me not being a fan of how GG works in general with things like Tension and Roman Cancel. Having the community pushing it to make all people tyring it doesn't help me either since I don't like to be forced to play a thing.
I'm not a fighting game person. I like watching them from time to time and I try to play them sometimes but I'm more of a Platformer and RPG fan, my mind works differently so I lack skill for executing a lot of stuff, sometimes even basic stuff.
Somehow I did find UNICLR to be a game that works for me even if the netcode sucks. I just really enjoy playing Akatsuki when I boot up the game up.
Maybe I'll find something even in the Melty Blood remake or the new KoF, who knows.
Surely not in Guilty Gear Strive for me, that's for sure.
Probably doesn't help also me not being a fan of PC gaming and I avoid using mods a lot.
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Man this video is something I've been saying to my buddies for a good while
The biggest obstacle for me to play Strive is how long it takes before I can play Strive.
It takes minutes for me to be able to get to the main menu then I have to wait again before I can get to the lobbies (and its no secret how well those work).
I like Strive, really, I do, but my attention span is already not the best, so this is a big deal to me.
As a fighting game causal (I really only have played SFV, Battle for the Grid, aand BBTAG), I do have some issues with what is available today from an onlooker’s perspective.
First off, there is no end. It’s an endless grind, but I suppose that comes with the territory. After you get gud that’s it, unless of course you’re very competitive.
Secondly, an abuse of DLC.
I’ve never seen a genre today where widely there’s such expensive DLC that arguably, compared to other genres, is quite little. Aside from Smash Bros I can’t think of any modern fighting games that actually have unlockable characters & costumes by interacting with the game. It’s all DLC. Very pricey DLC. (Seriously Battle for the Grid, $30 for a skin?!). Fighting games unfortunately are some of the most expensive games on the market because of this DLC abuse. Sure, have some DLC to promote longevity, but don’t have multiple character passes with exclusive skins (looking at you Street Fighter & BBTAG)
Talks like this make me appreciate Thems fightin herds lobbbies so much more
I think the issue is there's been so many great games throughout the years our standards have become unrealistically high. Innovation is not something that happens every 3 years or whatever the marketing for games nowdays lasts, so obviously most games that come out wont surpass the previous one or whichever we think is the best of all time or even the last gen.
And then the trend towards making everything simple did not work out great. I believe devs are out of that for the most part and searching for actual innovation but its still not enough. GG strive for instance is a good game, unlike most fighters in the last 5 years I did get into it and played but its still way too simple to fill the space +R or even Xrd had in me. Its not a game that keeps your brain going around it 24/7. You're not always on the lookout for tech, matchups, setplay, defense etc. if you look at strive replays pretty much everyone plays the exact same way, theres 2 setups at most which are pretty ez to defend against, there is barely any KD, there is 1 optimal combo per character and maybe another one for corner carry. Melty blood for instance is looking the exact opposite; merely from the replays the TM channel has uploaded I have already seen more mindgames and tech than Ive seen from strive in its whole life time. It does look like a game that can fill that void of keeping us players obsessed and thinking about it since we wake up, on our way to work, then looking at streams and replays there is always something new to learn because every player has its own way of doing things and it works.
Melty Blood has 1 day for Max to find 1 character he likes.
Beginner speaking….everything is wrong with fighting games. Learning all from zero is really hard, perhaps the game you like isnt very noob friendly and the nail in the coffin, that online matches are really bad and not crossplay between platforms. A total disaster. I play for example granblue fantasy versus, online is dead, the only people that play in my server are 12, and that 12 people are veterans so….I play alone or get my ass kicked. Result i dont play. Didnt buy GG strive because it would be the same deadly spiral.
At this point fighting games should go free to play. You can't seriously try to tell me that a game like Guilty Gear Strive is worth $60 and an extra $25 for DLC. Other games like Tekken 7, DBFZ, BBTAG, GBVS, SFV, and others have so much DLC to the point where getting the whole game and the characters would cost almost double the retail price. Killer Instinct's model is the way to go, and it was able to reach over 10 million total players. If Strive adopted the free to play model at launch it probably would have exceeded 1 million players at this point.
I don’t get what that person meant by “Beginners don’t know what oki and anti-air is” as a beginner I didn’t know the words, sure, but I did both of them. I knew the concept just not what they were actually called. You don’t need to know the name to do the move/tech.
Every single streamer is ranting about the net code of fighting games
but the fun part is the community is the only part of the player base that gives a crap about it
and those hardcore gamers that care about this are a minority of the people buying fighting games (well at least the big ones)
No one addresses the core issue with fighting games that makes the majority people not even wanting to get better at the game
When you are taking a beating there is nothing to do!!! and get good is not the answer to this problem
the majority of the buyers get the game to play when a couple of friend come over
if one gets to know the game more then the rest no one wants to play with that person coz they just dont get to play
the issue is not with i win all the time or i loose all the time
its just that when people are not on a close lvl to one another the game is boring
Let people do buffs when the other player is doing their combos on them, let them mitigate dmg, build meter(not passive from taking dmg but some button combination to keep them engaged)
or whatever else you can think of but dont give them the option to drain all their meter to interrupt a combo and get punished like in MK11 or wake up in the corner with no resources just so that they can continue to be a punching bag
this is what makes most people not interested in fighting games
I agree with you on it's ok if people just wanna watch fighting games and not playing. Tournaments have a spectator pass for a reason.
This video made me think on GranblueVS no rollback and the latest patch made the game less fun for a lot of people, and with the lack of communication from the deps we have no idea where to let them know
i like fighting game but i stop learning it after most my bud stop playing with me because i learn how to play the game.
I hate the lag
I like grandblue fantasy game because it has both game play ,fighting and act.
It same as doa. Plus I like see beautiful waifu and coolest guy. I like lore game like kof.melty has lore, fight and waifu.
My unpopular opinion.. Stop try balance damn game. Unbalanced and hard is what game Is fun. That why kof fun. The boss reckt you so hard you getting traumatic experience. Nowday everthing balance it no fun.. Grapper power damage same as skill speed power. This is why kof and doa has good knowledge about damage…
On the topic of fighting games not being quick to get into and get another match, I'd say NRS games aren't too bad. They feel kind of close to Call of Duty in a way, where you win or lose, and just find another game. It's probably one reason why they are very successful in America
When it comes to fighting games me and my friend Kaguya tend to look at two things, Single Player content, since we like to learn how to play our characters through things like arcade or story modes, the other is well how satisfying we feel the combat is. I know the second one doesn't exactly make sense, hell it's very subjective.
For Kaguya it comes down to the impact of heavy hitting attacks, for me it comes down to character versatility. Kaguya loves the flashy stuff while I like being kept on my toes unlike in certain games I played before where everyone always played the same way as eachother.
I would love a new bb
My two biggest problems in strive for example is the direction it went from super high character power to more importance on system mechanics and the fact i have to fight the lobby to get into a match because i find someone but they refuse my match by mistake and teleport to the other side of the lobby and they end up matching against someone else
My favorite fighting game to watch is Bloodborne.
Personally I just wanted to have Dead or Alive 2 or 3 with an online mode. Then Dead or Alive 5 came out and I was so excited. Then I played it twice and never touched fighting games since. Because Dead or Alive "innovated" a perfectly working system because they needed charge up moves that break guards.
"the more effective way to do it is to have the community attract people" That right there. I was just playing Blazblue CT and CS back then but then suddenly I found Max's Assist Me and realized that it's not a dog-eat-dog, the most powerful warrior stands at the top kind of thing but rather an actual community that's in a way almost like a Tibetan monastery of people learning fighting games. I was only on Blazblue and Tekken at the time and kinda rarely too, but watching Assist Me made me want to branch out and know the rest of the community and gain more mastery in what games I've played