Defense In Fighting Games - lightslingergame.com

Defense In Fighting Games

GekkoSquirrel
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60 Comments

  1. What song is it that plays at the beginning of this video? It has such a dreamy feeling

  2. Lmfaoooo great vid. Offense coming soon? 👀

  3. Mordhau is technically not a fighying game but eh. The game has a parrying mechanic that if mastered, can essentially win you any encounter. Even when the opponent has m1911 in the 1400's.

  4. You and Leon Massey are in a vein of your own. Good shit man.

  5. Even on controller I hate block buttons. SC is the worst, but my hate even extends to shield in MBTL. Strangely I don’t hat pushblock or FD in SG OR GG

  6. Good video but no mention of alpha counters, rolls, dodges combo breakers burst or just defend

  7. Plays Rivals of Aither music in background
    "Let's talk about blocking"
    Me: Ya. I would like to do that in that game.

  8. An observation from the first 3 minutes of the video: fighting game tutorials teach 'hold back to block' and 'hold down-back to block low hits', but don't cover the importance of your changed spacing.

  9. block button is dope because it allows for more aggressive control

    if the block is harder to execute it means the block has to be worth it, making block attached to a button means theres leeway to making block less safe in the first place or forcing a parry to be the vital option

    I hate giving up position, shits wack, fuck you, im going in

  10. I feel you missed mashing as a defensive option, abare is extremely important. People like kazunoko and sonic fox have built careers off that.

  11. The block button doesn't inherently remove the left/right mix. A very easy way to keep the block button and preserve that aspect is to simply lock the blocking direction when the block button is held, requiring you to release and repress when the opponent is on the other side of you. While I'm sure it would take some effort and experimentation to end up with a system that isn't prone to abuse from the player (ie just constantly spamming the block button), but I'm certain it's possible.

    I'm not saying you can't be critical of systems that you feel like aren't good for the game, and you're certainly allowed to just 'not like' systems or mechanics of systems, but it's pretty lame to see you write off button blocking as a concept because you simply haven't found (or, more charitably: no one has made) an implementation you like, versus the idea itself being genuinely bad.

  12. personally i prefer holding a button to block in any game, i don't play a lot of fighting games but there's a few ways in which it balances out

    Chip Damage
    nearly every game that has button block has you taking a small portion of damage when hit, in some instances this can kill (although in the case of non-supers i prefer living with 1 HP), but in others it still adds up over the game

    Guard Crush
    in some games certain super moves will not only deal damage through guard, they'll put them in a guard break state which opens them up to a ton of damage, and many games have non-supers that can do this as well, or there will be a meter that depletes with each hit, forcing you to evade or attack eventually.

    Super Meter
    in games where you build meter from attacking, it's generally a bad idea to just go on the defensive all day since they'll build meter while you don't.

    Timing
    and let's not forget some games like Kingdom Hearts, where guarding is entirely timing based, guarding needs to be pre-empted, if you press too early or too late, you get hit. personally prefer the other system as here, dodging has more overlap

  13. ADACHI HAPPY CHAOS MOD???????????!!!!!!!!!!!?????????!!!!!!!1

  14. No mention of 3D sidestepping, 2D KOF-style dodging, lane-switch mechanics (Fatal Fury, Guilty Gear Isuka), performing moves that shift your hitboxes enough to hop or duck or otherwise avoid various attacks, open and closed stances in Virtua Fighter, systems where similar strength moves clash without causing damage to either party, rock-paper-scissors counter systems like DOA, SamSho's weapon catch, etc. Covers SF3's parry, but doesn't mention Mark of the Wolves. No mention of Mortal Kombat when talking about a block button.

    To be fair, I can understand people not wanting to talk about Guilty Gear Isuka.

  15. 1:25 In smash, moves can be much more negative on hit than on block at low %s because of how little hitstun weak attacks have. An example of this would be inkling bair, which is -2 on block but punishable on hit with most characters jabs/grabs

  16. That's the most perfect thumbnail i've ever seen

  17. Okay, this is a much more situational one in standard fighters than it is in games like Smash, but there is one other semi-unofficial aspect of defense… character size. Big characters have a larger hurtbox and are generally slower, but also tend to have better reach. (Usually. *Glares at 3S Hugo*)

    On the other hand, small characters can be incredibly difficult to touch. One of my favorite characters is Servbot from MvC2. He's the lowest-tier character that isn't named Roll, but he is the smallest unmodified character in any 2D fighting game. He is literally so small he can stand under several projectiles, and some supers like Venom Web don't even work on him.

    Granted, this is more of a passive defensive trait, but it IS an aspect of the character-choosing and gameplay process, so I thought I'd bring it up.

  18. Once again Granblue has found the way to do it right with the block button. It has traditional blocking giving you both options, guard button extends your hutbox and takes a couple frames to get out of which makes throw teching harder. It also doesn't negate crossups as evidenced by Lancelot being top tier first season all thanks to a triangle jump and a very short range teleport.
    Block button is likely to keep showing up in future games as seen in DNFD which controls a lot like a non-platforming Smash with it's command heavys, direction contextual special button and a guard button that lets you dodge and wavedash.
    Speaking of teleports, the game that completely kills left-right cross ups including it's abundant and extremely cheap teleport attacks? Mortal Kombat, that is a block button done wrong. Or arguably a game so stupidly broken in the offense the only option they had for defense was static, non-resource intensive faultless blocking.

  19. I will say, button blocking in standard fighting games does kind of suck, but 3D games like SoulCalibur or platform fighters like Smash are more suited for it, given their unique mechanics.

  20. Honestly I've always found there's an interesting hierarchy of types of invincibility in fighting games.
    Armour – Lets you tank through 2 to 3 hits while still taking damage.
    Super Armour – Same as armour except there's no hit limit.
    Guard Point – Like super armour where there's no limit to the hits it can tank, but also has the added bonus of dealing no damage since you're technically blocking while the move is happening.
    Invincibility – Entirely blows all the other three out of the water because of invincibility often works in a way where the person is simply immune to attacks, phasing through them during the invincibility frames. This also removes a weakness all the other three have in that attacks being absorbed in armour count as hits, and guardpoint counts as hitting someone who's blocking, both allowing for gatling options to be performed. Whereas invincibility counts as a whiff.
    There's probably other types of invincibility and stuff like this that I'm not aware of.

  21. Remind me of Bloody Roar , iirc it have Auto Guard/Guard and Heavy Guard where in your neutral stance it's automatically block light middle attack
    Heavy attack will crush that guard in which you will have to hold block button or hold back button

  22. Now why would I take defense tips from someone who bad at it (good video tho)

  23. Tekken has moves that knockdown, but to avoid follow-ups, are negative on hit. Idk if there is one of those that is plus on block tho

  24. 1:50 depends on the inputs, methinks
    Are there Charge characters in games with Block Button?

  25. 1:45 the block button. Separate defense from the movement and sacrifice nothing. Again, like Soul Calibur 6 did.
    2:40 same deal as above.

    That anime game really gave you the wrong impression of a block button.
    Left hand does movement, right hand does actions.
    Ahh, stick. All buttons for me.

  26. I feel like the best fighting game with a block button is Soul Calibur. The reason for this is because it's quite easy to break through your opponent's guard. There's always classic mixups, but simply hitting them enough times will cause them to stagger. You can't just turtle behind the block button because it will eventually fail you.

  27. Good content but your reasoning for why back to block is better is why I have an instinctual aversion to 2d fighting games: dodging and blocking are two completely separate types of actions and I do not enjoy the dynamic created by linking those two things.

  28. The movement defense plays also a major on slam masters 2 too, when its come to running and slide to avoid attacks , cross up, projectile but there is also the Invicible rope bounce on stages that related to the movement defense.

  29. i forgot about the deadly miguel wave dash in tekken at 6:31

  30. The fuck is defense
    Im an I-No main all i have is block and yellow roman cancel

  31. "Can't wait to for someone to find a move that's minus on hit and plus on block"

    Tekken 1 King's df+1 low kick was +8 on hit and +93 on block. PLUS NINETY THREE.

    The strategy against df+1 was to let yourself get hit by it in neutral and wait until it pushed you out of range.

  32. Having a block button feels like the best idea in 3D fighters. In Soulcalibur, if I want to side step, I just side step. If I want to jump or crouch, I hold guard to then jump or crouch. There is a clear and useful separation between movement categories this way. Meanwhile in Tekken, sometimes I try to side step in a panic and I end up crouching or jumping instead, which probably gets me killed.

  33. Lol did this dude just try to wave dash with miguel?

  34. A fun fact

    Jams J 2k in Xrd and Plus R are much better on block than on hit
    Being +8 on block and I think Minus on hit ?(Idk it doesn't say but it feels like it)

    so lots of jams will RC 2k on hit cause they want the plus frames

  35. Seeing as BlazBlue was the first fighting game i really fell in love with (even though i never got good and the only character i can use outside of Stylish mode is Noel and /maybe/ Bullet) it was nice to see it represented here. Then again its a fellow original ArcSys game so i guess it was kinda to be expected? Also i now know why, as much as i love it, i take so much damage in GBVS. Monkey brain is too focused on shooting people as a tall cat man.

  36. Kinda sad the hold system from dead or alive wasn't addressed..this has been my most favourite ever defensive playstyle incentive… but then again, i was a bayman main.

  37. Making a fighting game and was wondering if having a grapple parry is a good idea
    High risk high reward
    Character a throws out a long attack character b predicts it and boom high positive for character a because of a long wake up and if it whiffs long recovery animation

  38. He didn't talk about evasive moves like in guilty gear they have burst as a evasive move

  39. As the corner is my home as an axle main I know all to well what it means to learn blockstrings lmao. Seriously though hof help this fucking dude keeps hitting me help.

  40. Fun Fact: in every Arc System Works Fighting Game (like Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, and Persona 4 Arena.) characters can use a Defensive Mechanic called Instant Block.

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