Combo Maker – The feature putting Fighting Game dev’s on notice
Brian_F
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Like: 2371
Guilty Gear Strive’s new Combo Maker mode is AWESOME, and every fighting game team needs to be copying it. Let’s talk about why.
#Brian_F #StreetFighter #FGC
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04.04.2022
Older games have had plenty of Offline Modes but the Internet was in its infancy and there was not enough promotion maybe
The best fighting games I've seen to this day with the amount of characters AND modes were: Alpha 3 and SFxT Vita version.
Using SFV as an example on how to improve it:
Modes:
– TIME ATTACK
– SHADALOO SURVIVAL (it's already been datamined) (Soldiers, Dolls, Kings)
– BONUS STAGE (why the HELL is this not selectable from the main menu and why only the Barrel Stage? Bring back the Car and create an new one…)
– Improve Gallery Mode, make it similar to Smash or even SFxT vita, to spin the models and such
– revive Dramatic Battle from Alpha 3
– "Extra Battle" should be "Final Boss Battle" like A3 and be the same thing, except FREE and not use FM. We should always have those difficult but fun FREE challenges like: Shin Bison, Shin Akuma, Max Presidentiality G, Triggered necalli, Shadow, etc
– bring back SHADOW BATTLE from vanilla MvC3, which is similar to this custom combo downloader, it's paid DLC for specific AI battles and this would have been the perfect way for Crapcom to engage with fans while making money, it's the perfect Mode to give us an AI dummy of pro players and I would have been so down to play against you or Daigo for example, especially because not all of us can go to EVO and such, and you'd get a commission for each buy
– online team battle
– online training
Aesthetic changes:
– add basic special intros
– group Ranked, Casual and Battle Lounge in one slot named online and add the online training and team battle
– on SF3 hard mode Arcade we fight against a special G with resurrection, but not a special Bison in SF2 and SF0?! wtf Capcom
Let's all tweet this to Crapcom, if they add that then maybe they could sell a physical copy of the final FINAL version of SFV (lol) and it'd be beneficial for them and for fans (personally I don't want SF6 for at least 3-5 years, give me RIVAL FREAKING SCHOOLS 3!!!)
I think one thing that keeps down social features is trolls. If you do community on Twitch, then the trolls are Amazon's problem. If you have all the community on SFV, then Capcom has to handle that stuff. They don't want to have to hire community mods and stay on top of that stuff. This would greatly increase the support costs of maintaining the game.
My gripe is that he didn’t start ggst at all :/
Chat, you're on thin ice 1:14–1:27
This vid was pretty special, I didn't try Combo Maker Mode yet but you're right. I think it's awesome that more skilled people can make those finger breaking SFEX2 Combo trials. We do need more ways to do things in game and I guess this kinda further explains why the trials in Strive were kinda easy. Thanks for the vid.
I love watching you but have never been able to approach 3s. May pick up Oro for your tutorials. His loops are hype.
your video reminded me that i made a combo recipe and i just saw it became the most downloaded and 3rd most liked combo for zato. Didnt even play gg for months now :O
the problem is that FGs dont look around, see what exists and use that as a starting point and advance. There is so many good ideas that have existed in FGs since long ago, but devs just ignore them. I understand, there is a time limit to the dev process and you have to follow a schedule and deliver a product by prioritizing dev time etc etc…
but cmon. KOF15 background contrast setting should be in all games. It would solve Strive's visibility issues thats for sure.
Same with that +R feature where you can interrupt a replay and take control.
How great it would be to mix the two? Let people share "training scripts". Example : Urien mirror mixup. User records several possible mixups from a mirror activation and sets a shareable script that you can download and just practice against….
Anyway. Start by fixing the netplay capcom then we will talk about the rest.
This combo maker is definitely pretty fun, I personally don’t play much online but I love doing trials and looking up difficult combos very chill
If devs include community participation in creating levels … or in this case, custom combo tutorials … devs need to also add a like/dislike option to allow crap and jank to get ratio'd down
I don't care about some damn combo maker… all I want is 50/50 character balance across the board.
Tbh Arcsys games tend to be crazy good at making new players get used to the game lol. Anyone else remember the noise feature in the combo trials that add noises to the specific buttons. That way it can be like a rhythm?
It would be awesome for this to be a new standard in the games
Daisuke is literally carrying this whole genre.
Like the absolute Chad that he is lol
The combo maker is ok, but imo it would be a lot better if it didn't cut you off because you missed the timing or pressed the wrong button on a combo you haven't even learned yet. To clarify, SFV combo trials don't have a limited number of tries before it says 'fail' and resets you, wasting your time having to start it over. Generally, it's pretty annoying. I've ended up just writing the combos down and then taking them to training mode, where I can actually learn the damned thing without interference.
TFH was first tho, ig
wow a brain f video on strive! okay, moving on from that- I agree with you quite a bit. A combo maker and better social tools would really benefit SFV/FGC as a whole. I really love Strive's news system because it constantly suggests players or match replays to glean from. I'd love to see more tools like that in more games.
Always good to see Capcom devs get humbled
I don't know exactly what you meant when you said 'native within the game' but in Herds you just share the combo file with people and then they can put it in the combo file in their game directory and then they can load it up in the game as a combo trial so it is 'native' in that sense it just requires you to put it in a specific folder on PC.
I just got GGS. I'm sure this has already been said but it's a shame they haven't included their own combo trials like before. It's a huge SP portion of the game just missing now. Getting the players to make themselves isn't the same.
Which was the last song towards the end?
God damn, This is good.
Please talk about this on No Neutral to get the word out because this is massively important for not just the FGC but also the TCG community as well.
There's way too much focus on just getting new blood in the door and not solidifying and rewarding retention in both communities.
At the 13:40 mark a song starts playing. What game is that from? It's driving me crazy!
It hurt a bit knowing instantly why that Potemkin trial had a 1% clear rate, especially with you talking about "surprise trials" earlier
if we could get harder ai , that can simulate real human behaviour and put it offline , that would be great
SF5 Trials are pretty applicable. SF4? Fuuuuuuuuuuuck no, totally agree
It's a good step in the right direction. The problem I foresee is it's still too convoluted. Not to mention future patches will make the combo routes obsolete. If the FGC for a particular game can agree on a particular notation and contribute to creating a map then I think everyone would benefit. Combo cartography essentially. It lightens the load for any individual to go sift out and funnel optimized combos. Youtube itself is a primary example of there being too much unconsolidated clutter.
Was at my friends house and a bunch of people were playing on the SFII cab he has over there. it was a lot of their first time playing a fighting game. They were asking me how the game work and it just hit me that there was no way to effectively communicate how to do the most basic of things with out physically stopping them from playing the game and giving a long ass lecture at which point nobody would even care to play anymore lol
LMAO very true re: shit getting worse after 2007
I've been building Strive combos and it's a dream come true. It's so much fun and adds many hours to the game. I spend more time learning combos and playing online to test them out than I do anything else.
I like how you can also set the positions to be specific so you can use it for repositioning when practicing certain scenarios which is a little nicer than just regular old training mode.
It also helps a ton in learning how to play a new character, just dl a few combos and start learning bnbs and other setups.
I definitely think the "ecosystem" that fighting game developers have created have a lot of holes that leak players unnecessarily, and it would be great if your opinion were heard by the people that are making these games. Player retention has been a long standing issue with fighting games, and before online took off, they relied on communities forming around the game to keep them popular. As the community gets pushed more into the realm of the internet, it becomes more and more necessary for developers to provide first-party options to the common solutions such as forums and instant messaging. I'm not saying Fighting Games should become a second home like some MMORPGs have become, but– yeah no I guess I am saying that. If there's not a welcoming environment that feels intuitive for a new player to grow up in, much like any home, they likely wont stick around and develop. Fighting games are fair by nature, but making sure that everyone has the same knowledge is the key to lowering the bar in the right way, without lowering the difficulty even farther.
Long rant, thanks for reading if you did. Keep up the good work Brine.
Once Desk gets his hands on Combo Maker. Oh boy…
Loving the shout out to TFH!
These are all great ideas but remember every game company is out to make the most PROFIT. Everything is micro transactions, almost every single game that comes out is unfinished or rushed. I mean look at samurai showdown. U were able to literally play a mirror of yourself therefore u were able to see what your weaknesses are. The game literally recorded you game tactics, tech, and BS u were just throwing out. That’s amazing!! U could even fight a mirror version of someone else I mean talk about getting to know ur opponent. But no one seems to know about this or talk about it.
This would be great if this becomes a new standard feature in future FGs, that and online practice.
Update : desk broke it again
This is super cool and you hit the nail on the head with regards to single player content. As someone who has recently gotten really into fighting games, but doesn’t play much online, I often view combo trials as the meat of my single player content, and this is essentially a never ending menu of those trials. I didn’t even realize Strive added this cause I haven’t picked it up in so long.
I fucking hate strive but I love this feature, I was so bummed out when they removed Tekken Ghost Battles, I play PvP, but not on every game, some games are more fun solo.
This isn't roll back level necessary…….but goodness, this is cool and should be added to any of the new games within the FGC.
I know that combo trials was a place where I spend a great deal of time in combo trials in past games- but found that trials progressed too quickly for someone like myself who struggled with combos.
I can see this allowing for a more even progression of skill development.
Arcsys seriously moving the genre forward every week, incredible
Saying guilty gear and having “Disaster of Passion” start is a 10/10
Man, can you imagine being able to download Desk combo tutorials? That would be so ridiculous. And awesome. Or Sako combos… Or the game could just be like Virtual Fighter and have a tutorial for all o your character's BnB's an max damage combos, as well as your best oki and meaty setups, as well as option selects. It's hard to believe that a game that came out almost 20 years ago still has the best tutorial and single player mode.
Edit: After watching more of the video, VF4:Evo also had more single player replayability by not focusing on a story/arcade mode, but instead, a single player mode where you travel to different arcades and level up your rank so you can travel to tougher arcades, all where you fight actual player AI's that fight to their rank. At the highest ranks, you actually get to fight AI's of top Japan players like Chibita, which is just awesome. It's still the only single player fighting game mode that allowed me to get better against human opponents by playing the CPU. Normally, if you spend hours learning to beat the CPU, you just pick up bad habits that don't work on humans, and you stop doing things which actually do work on humans, like mix-ups. As you rank up, the computer starts doing things like consistently punishing unsafe moves, to whiff punishing (which is programed with something like human reaction time, as well as pattern recognition, which also effects mix-ups, as the AI will pick up if you're doing the same thing over and over, but you can also "train" it to be looking for one attack and mix it up), landing basic combos to optimal combos, option selecting, doing unsafe moves to playing more safe, etc. How has no other game copied this? It's insane, especially if what he said about people mostly playing single player mode, especially newbies, and then dropping the game, a comprehensive tutorial plus a single player mode that allows you to really get better would grow the community and get new players comfortable enough to take it online, with enough skill and knowledge to not get blown out by flow charts and spam they don't know how to deal with, and instead be able to understand why they lose matches.
What got me into Street Fighter is the trials mode. I spent more of my time in SF4 doing trials than playing online. So having this feature is amazing!
As someone going from Smash to Guilty Gear Strive after finishing up some projects, this is amazing news!
Benefits that Brian said:
1) Helps people learn combos
– Most players do NOT player multiplayer/pvp
– Fighting games lack single player modes
– Combo Maker = infinite replayability
– Mario Maker
2) Teaching players
– Current fighting game tutorials suck (he mentions it doesn't replace outside help though)
3) Social Features
– Over reliance on external platforms loses potential players
– Native sharing of content
The thing I'm most excited about is that this highlights static nature of traditional fighting game combos much more fun, and more approachable, while simultaneously showing how many options you really have.
I find it interesting most do not play multiplayer/pvp. Then again, I usually just sit in training mode 3/4 of the time I play Smash nowadays because I'm trying to improve my inputs so I can do more options. Planning on maining Jack-O or Zato, so I wonder if some training things will have minions already set up for Jack-O, because if not how will things get timed, and how will you know where to place minions?
Thought Brian was a crazy innovator at first
@brian_F why you ask? It’s because the FGC is full of agro idiots. I had one guy even look me up to call me a bitch for blocking and evading too much! Lol 😂 . Fighting games get too personal man for some reason and brings out the worst in all of us sometimes, and sometimes if you can actually message the scrub or Master it will be vile and vulgar only cuz most are salty as fuck bro … that’s why
@brian_F if SFV was actually social there would probably be more murders across the land than before, people be taking loosing way too seriously in SFV man, you know that
Brian you’d probably be a dead man now for beating everyone’s ass so hard if they could actually interact message you between rounds lol hahahahahahaha lol 😂
This should 100% be standard for every single fighting game.