Actually it is a very difficult choice between generating revenue and making a perfect game. Money is needed to further continue the series.. the real challange is to balance both aspects..
The "800 yen tier characters" has been very prevalent since KoF 13, maybe earlier, but it's been slowly creeping up, T7 is the most obvious iteration of this happening.
Big problem for you if you decide on doing what you mentioned at the end of the video, is going to be very hard for you to learn matchups. The competitive scene is forced to buy dlc because of MU knowledge.
Wait, ain't that's what we been doing for over 25 or more year's it started with tk3, tk4 basically tk3 with walls and bugs. Tk5 and tk5dr we did that, WATS makes it worse TTT2 basically tk6 in disguise with small changes were buying the same product for year's now with small changes but u want to complain about this u finally realized it. WTF
I like philosophy mr whisp but damn. Its def dying. It that entropy thingy. Ive been on tekken half my life almost. But I dont think its just fighting games. Games in general are slowing down naturally from the boom and now its just graphics. either you like playing this shit or you do not. Search for innovation elsewhere. Tekken should just be refined like precious stone about to be set.
The Tekken team needs to retrain and do something else for money. Dont butcher the fucking game or it will be their demise. They have tech skillzzz they are not idiots. They could have gotten into crypto and asked the people playing the game to mine a little, but no, uncreative at best. If they butcher the game someone will just mod this legacy arcade game from like the early 90s(probably JDCR he would learn the code). DONT MESS WITH ASUKA MAINS.
Tekken isn't special anymore. Just seeing Harada's twitter gives me a headache because he has been feeding people bs nonstop for the past 3 or 4 years .
Tbh i had the most fun with S1 and S2 . Since S3 got released this Tekken became a Cluster F*ck. 50+ Characters is way to high. They should have making more offline content for example a Scenario Campaign like T6 haded or some other stuff where you can spend that useless in game Money. Just my opinion
You should realize that the players are not the same either. What you consider as fundamental aspects of FGs is essentially a "gatekeeping" for a new type of audience. At this point, developers are just trying to adapt to the new situation. Honestly, if I were an investor I would never give money to anything but gacha – the money they make is just insane and development costs nothing. Honestly, it's probably a miracle we even managed to get what we have.
It’s also important to think about how the FGC reacts to games compared to other player bases. Don’t forget about what happened to SFV; the game was practically dead after capcom didn’t listen to the player base, resulting in everyone leaving. It doesn’t matter how popular your franchise is, typically in the fgc, if the player base doesn’t like it, they will leave. Companies must be wary about this when trying to manipulate the player base to maximize profits through shady tactics
I completely agree with the moral wrongness of where the industry is headed, and I would definitely say that Leeroy was the pinnacle of fighting game accessibility for Tekken 7. That being said, It's not like they are not doing anything; it was just poor timing that accentuated the problem. There were and still are nerf coming to Leeroy, and Tallboi and it shows that we somewhat still have a voice. Kunimitsu is just a very slightly better Eliza; though that's based more on aesthetics more than anything else. However where the future of the industry is heading towards; the end all be all is money. Money. They will ahear to dollar voting. We need to stop giving them the privilege to milk us out of $$
The unfair DLC characters is what's killing the game for me. Can't stand the feeling of loosing vs somebody who's playing a stronger, overloaded with tools and easier to play character. They should sacrifice the customization aspects of the game, make 3/4 default skins and then sell more skins as DLC. Loosing customization wouldn't be good, but at least it would be fair gameplay wise, and I bet the could even earn more money with this business model.
Fighting games should have single player modes that teach you the game with bosses and they should montise with expansion packs that add more single player content
I think the culture today like making games "accessible" is hurting fighting games. Together with DLC contents that should have been there in the original games.
Considering the fact that FPSs are using more and more aggressive aim assist to shorten the skill gap between vastly more experienced players, the wave dash thing honestly wouldn't surprise me all that much if it wound up happening. I just feel bad for all the people who put years of their life into these games only to have the dev team indirectly slap them in the face for trying so hard by just giving a free pass to everybody and the characters are just the first step.
Don't need to tell me twice on the DLC thing by the way, i've been doing that ever since the last gen started 😉
Looking at fighting games now. They have massively fallen. Tekken 7: Crap story, 1 battle for a character story. Pay for dlc characters where most if them should already have been in it. Pay for bowling. Fighting system is so sloppy, you have death combos. Katarina spam. Characters with moves you cant punish and are over powered asf.
Street Fighter 5: pay more for dlc characters then you practically get in the standard game. Buggy moments where hits shouldnt reach but do.
MK10/11: Ridiculous combos. More of a bring a gun to a fighting game now. And you cant do much about certain moves. "Oh my god, he's zoning him, that kid has skill"… I mean, look at Alien and you'll know what I mean.
Fighting games are a dying breed where the developers are more concerned about how to utilize its tournament potential. That's it. They dont care about anything else. Only if it works for tournament.
I think the casualisation of fighting games is only going to hit the big names. Sure Guilty Gear Strive, Tekken 8, Street Fighter 6 etc… will all be hot garbage but there will be indie companies that still make fighting games with all the complexity that they need. The main issue I see is that they'll all have a small player base unless one takes off and becomes the next big thing but, if you're willing to forego the big name titles, I think you'll find good games still being made. You'll have to look a lot harder for them though.
Idk I feel like we are in the fighting games golden era. All of them are very good. But hardcore elitist hate when anything they like gets popular. Whats new
I agree. Its why I have been out for a while on the genre and havent bought any DLC for them in years. Its just to painful to see a genre I have loved so much become so distorted and false because quality isnt even a consideration as long as the money comes in.
We spend 60$ to buy a game with a small roster of characters (gbfv), shitty net code, no crossplay, no seasonal events/ rewards, and worst of all, season passes that offer nothing but a roster of potentially broken or boring characters to make sales.
Everything is biding for our attention and fighting games fail to retain their player base.
They have alienated the high level players in Tekken by nerfing the movement. The short term success is blinding them Tekken is going downhill Mark my words
The fact that Lab Zero just released a season pass for Skull Girls (that game that came out for the PS3/Xbox 360) this year, the Games As A Service trend in fighting games definitely is real and not limited to the East. GAAS is like the worst of both worlds between console games and arcade games where one pays premium prices for the games then has to pay to play constantly.
I truly do believe fighting games will enter another dark age. Pros will get fed up with the games, the more serious gamers will get fed up, scrubs and newcomers will drop the games in 2 months like always do. More and more simplified games will be released, all flash but no substance and our favorite series will be a shadow of their former selves.
I think there are multiple types of casuals. However it feels like devs snd influencers shills only care about attracting newcomers and salt lord scrubs.
I really want to get into the FGC.. are they really dying.. Im bored of competitve shooters so I'm looking for a competitve experience elsewhere.. I grew up on fighting games so I hope there is still a good future ahead of the community
Definitely not 2021 is looking like an awesome time for Fighting games, new guilty gear, KOF, FEXL_AD, and melty blood with all of them getting rollback netcode!
A very intelligent analysis. I wasn't sure what angle you were going to go with at first and thought maybe it would become opinionated. Tekken 7 in particular is one of my lesser played fighting games. I've played all of them up to this point. I purchased Lei but had not played Tekken Tag 2 and was dumbfounded by what little they actually gave to him. I want to say definitely less than 10 – 15 additional moves? So hold a character hostage but also try to create a fear of missing out in terms of participating with said favourite character in the new game's climate. Dark times ahead ahoy.
One of my major problem with fighting games is that after a couple of games they decide to remove characters and have a smaller roster and sell you characters that were in previous games, this practice piss me of because most fighting games reuse characters moves with a new game so they should be adding new characters in a new installment without removing previous characters, example guilty gear strive smaller roster than rev 2 and will probably have characters from rev 2 as dlc in strive
Fighting game companies have become ridiculously greedy and they’ve shown some of the worst practices of this industry. I don’t think there’s really anything at this point that’ll make fighting regain their glory days because both the developers and the consoomers have poisoned this well and made sure it stays that way.
the issue will only get worse as long as corporations keep dipping their hands anything to make money. remember the good old days of utube where there was no ads, ppl wasnt trying that hard to make money off utube videos and things felt more real and fun. now utube is all about getting more people to watch ur video and not playing anything that will get u copyright strike, making sure not to upset utube and their guidelines, always making longer videos and making sure ur content is ad friendly while sticking ads inside the video. gaming will just get worse and worse because the corporations look at other games and how much money they make and say, i wanna make more than that, now the game make us more money. if u was given a choice to listen to some1 for an hr or listen to some1 for an hr and get paid money, which one would u pick. money talks and its going to keep talking until people wake up and see spending $100s-$1000s on games is not all that amazing.
Thank god, they should've gone extinct decades ago. If they can't be bothered to program CPUs that behave like human beings at various skill levels and don't just input read and cheat then single player becomes null and void and for a genre that has so little to it already it shouldn't be allowed to survive as a genre. They've had like 40 years to figure this shit out, at this point they either can't do it or they don't want to and never will. And like it or not 1337 combo masters, that is how you get newcomers into a franchise.
Street Fighter IV had something similar to the input correcting AI Harada was talking about, where they read missed Z motion inputs as Z motions. In practice, it didn't make the game easier, the competitive crowd discovered the various motions that registered as a z motion and you got people doing insane shit like performing a shoryuken out of a crouching block. In short, it made the game harder.
Hey Mr. Whisperer, do you speak fluent Japanese??
I love your wise and bold takes on things sometimes. Because you're right, and it needs to be said.
kof 15 and vf 6 is coming up, let's be patient
I AM afraid of liking the video, i don't want to be the 700th like
Actually it is a very difficult choice between generating revenue and making a perfect game. Money is needed to further continue the series.. the real challange is to balance both aspects..
The "800 yen tier characters" has been very prevalent since KoF 13, maybe earlier, but it's been slowly creeping up, T7 is the most obvious iteration of this happening.
Big problem for you if you decide on doing what you mentioned at the end of the video, is going to be very hard for you to learn matchups. The competitive scene is forced to buy dlc because of MU knowledge.
Wait, ain't that's what we been doing for over 25 or more year's it started with tk3, tk4 basically tk3 with walls and bugs. Tk5 and tk5dr we did that, WATS makes it worse TTT2 basically tk6 in disguise with small changes were buying the same product for year's now with small changes but u want to complain about this u finally realized it. WTF
What about fighterz?
This is why they need to have more content upon release.
1/50^3 bro because 2 in a row is already 1/50^2.
I like philosophy mr whisp but damn. Its def dying. It that entropy thingy. Ive been on tekken half my life almost. But I dont think its just fighting games. Games in general are slowing down naturally from the boom and now its just graphics. either you like playing this shit or you do not. Search for innovation elsewhere. Tekken should just be refined like precious stone about to be set.
The Tekken team needs to retrain and do something else for money. Dont butcher the fucking game or it will be their demise. They have tech skillzzz they are not idiots. They could have gotten into crypto and asked the people playing the game to mine a little, but no, uncreative at best. If they butcher the game someone will just mod this legacy arcade game from like the early 90s(probably JDCR he would learn the code). DONT MESS WITH ASUKA MAINS.
Tekken isn't special anymore. Just seeing Harada's twitter gives me a headache because he has been feeding people bs nonstop for the past 3 or 4 years .
Tbh i had the most fun with S1 and S2 . Since S3 got released this Tekken became a Cluster F*ck. 50+ Characters is way to high. They should have making more offline content for example a Scenario Campaign like T6 haded or some other stuff where you can spend that useless in game Money. Just my opinion
You should realize that the players are not the same either. What you consider as fundamental aspects of FGs is essentially a "gatekeeping" for a new type of audience. At this point, developers are just trying to adapt to the new situation. Honestly, if I were an investor I would never give money to anything but gacha – the money they make is just insane and development costs nothing. Honestly, it's probably a miracle we even managed to get what we have.
It’s also important to think about how the FGC reacts to games compared to other player bases. Don’t forget about what happened to SFV; the game was practically dead after capcom didn’t listen to the player base, resulting in everyone leaving. It doesn’t matter how popular your franchise is, typically in the fgc, if the player base doesn’t like it, they will leave. Companies must be wary about this when trying to manipulate the player base to maximize profits through shady tactics
I completely agree with the moral wrongness of where the industry is headed, and I would definitely say that Leeroy was the pinnacle of fighting game accessibility for Tekken 7. That being said, It's not like they are not doing anything; it was just poor timing that accentuated the problem. There were and still are nerf coming to Leeroy, and Tallboi and it shows that we somewhat still have a voice. Kunimitsu is just a very slightly better Eliza; though that's based more on aesthetics more than anything else. However where the future of the industry is heading towards; the end all be all is money. Money. They will ahear to dollar voting. We need to stop giving them the privilege to milk us out of $$
The unfair DLC characters is what's killing the game for me. Can't stand the feeling of loosing vs somebody who's playing a stronger, overloaded with tools and easier to play character.
They should sacrifice the customization aspects of the game, make 3/4 default skins and then sell more skins as DLC. Loosing customization wouldn't be good, but at least it would be fair gameplay wise, and I bet the could even earn more money with this business model.
Fighting games should have single player modes that teach you the game with bosses and they should montise with expansion packs that add more single player content
I think the culture today like making games "accessible" is hurting fighting games. Together with DLC contents that should have been there in the original games.
Considering the fact that FPSs are using more and more aggressive aim assist to shorten the skill gap between vastly more experienced players, the wave dash thing honestly wouldn't surprise me all that much if it wound up happening. I just feel bad for all the people who put years of their life into these games only to have the dev team indirectly slap them in the face for trying so hard by just giving a free pass to everybody and the characters are just the first step.
Don't need to tell me twice on the DLC thing by the way, i've been doing that ever since the last gen started 😉
Looking at fighting games now. They have massively fallen. Tekken 7: Crap story, 1 battle for a character story. Pay for dlc characters where most if them should already have been in it. Pay for bowling. Fighting system is so sloppy, you have death combos. Katarina spam. Characters with moves you cant punish and are over powered asf.
Street Fighter 5: pay more for dlc characters then you practically get in the standard game. Buggy moments where hits shouldnt reach but do.
MK10/11: Ridiculous combos. More of a bring a gun to a fighting game now. And you cant do much about certain moves. "Oh my god, he's zoning him, that kid has skill"… I mean, look at Alien and you'll know what I mean.
Fighting games are a dying breed where the developers are more concerned about how to utilize its tournament potential. That's it. They dont care about anything else. Only if it works for tournament.
I think the casualisation of fighting games is only going to hit the big names. Sure Guilty Gear Strive, Tekken 8, Street Fighter 6 etc… will all be hot garbage but there will be indie companies that still make fighting games with all the complexity that they need. The main issue I see is that they'll all have a small player base unless one takes off and becomes the next big thing but, if you're willing to forego the big name titles, I think you'll find good games still being made. You'll have to look a lot harder for them though.
Idk I feel like we are in the fighting games golden era. All of them are very good. But hardcore elitist hate when anything they like gets popular. Whats new
I agree. Its why I have been out for a while on the genre and havent bought any DLC for them in years. Its just to painful to see a genre I have loved so much become so distorted and false because quality isnt even a consideration as long as the money comes in.
We spend 60$ to buy a game with a small roster of characters (gbfv), shitty net code, no crossplay, no seasonal events/ rewards,
and worst of all, season passes that offer nothing but a roster of potentially broken or boring characters to make sales.
Everything is biding for our attention and fighting games fail to retain their player base.
Dying? They are dead!
I stopped playing Tekken 7 after Kuni came out, just couldn't anymore. uninstalled and no plans to instal anytime soon
This has been in the works for years. They want to make everything equal on all levels. They've been doing this especially for shooters.
They have alienated the high level players in Tekken by nerfing the movement.
The short term success is blinding them
Tekken is going downhill
Mark my words
like obama said, play a boomer game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnV4hMhJEu4
The fact that Lab Zero just released a season pass for Skull Girls (that game that came out for the PS3/Xbox 360) this year, the Games As A Service trend in fighting games definitely is real and not limited to the East.
GAAS is like the worst of both worlds between console games and arcade games where one pays premium prices for the games then has to pay to play constantly.
I truly do believe fighting games will enter another dark age. Pros will get fed up with the games, the more serious gamers will get fed up, scrubs and newcomers will drop the games in 2 months like always do. More and more simplified games will be released, all flash but no substance and our favorite series will be a shadow of their former selves.
I think there are multiple types of casuals. However it feels like devs snd influencers shills only care about attracting newcomers and salt lord scrubs.
I really want to get into the FGC.. are they really dying.. Im bored of competitve shooters so I'm looking for a competitve experience elsewhere.. I grew up on fighting games so I hope there is still a good future ahead of the community
You can only eat a burger so many different ways.
Definitely not 2021 is looking like an awesome time for Fighting games, new guilty gear, KOF, FEXL_AD, and melty blood with all of them getting rollback netcode!
Honestly I just have to "collect" dlc chars kinda like an ocd thing
Who beat this guy so bad that he hates Tekken this much lol
So you want a buy a new $60 game every 2 years? Is that better?
They're garbage, so of course they're dying. if they don't even try to open themselves to the general public, then the genre will slowly fade away.
Back in the Arcades when you had to fight for your quarter and play next person in line was the golden days of fighting games.
A very intelligent analysis. I wasn't sure what angle you were going to go with at first and thought maybe it would become opinionated. Tekken 7 in particular is one of my lesser played fighting games. I've played all of them up to this point. I purchased Lei but had not played Tekken Tag 2 and was dumbfounded by what little they actually gave to him. I want to say definitely less than 10 – 15 additional moves? So hold a character hostage but also try to create a fear of missing out in terms of participating with said favourite character in the new game's climate. Dark times ahead ahoy.
What kills me is that you can't AT LEAST use dlc characters in training mode to lab them.
For Honor another game released in 2017 along with T7 on consoles did this.
Not just do you have most powerful characters they get added advantage of unfamiliarity for longer periods of time.
A lot of these problems with the game industry (and FGC) are a result of capitalism. Plain and simple. Philosophy tube has a great video on this.
One of my major problem with fighting games is that after a couple of games they decide to remove characters and have a smaller roster and sell you characters that were in previous games, this practice piss me of because most fighting games reuse characters moves with a new game so they should be adding new characters in a new installment without removing previous characters, example guilty gear strive smaller roster than rev 2 and will probably have characters from rev 2 as dlc in strive
Fighting game companies have become ridiculously greedy and they’ve shown some of the worst practices of this industry. I don’t think there’s really anything at this point that’ll make fighting regain their glory days because both the developers and the consoomers have poisoned this well and made sure it stays that way.
the issue will only get worse as long as corporations keep dipping their hands anything to make money. remember the good old days of utube where there was no ads, ppl wasnt trying that hard to make money off utube videos and things felt more real and fun. now utube is all about getting more people to watch ur video and not playing anything that will get u copyright strike, making sure not to upset utube and their guidelines, always making longer videos and making sure ur content is ad friendly while sticking ads inside the video. gaming will just get worse and worse because the corporations look at other games and how much money they make and say, i wanna make more than that, now the game make us more money. if u was given a choice to listen to some1 for an hr or listen to some1 for an hr and get paid money, which one would u pick. money talks and its going to keep talking until people wake up and see spending $100s-$1000s on games is not all that amazing.
Thank god, they should've gone extinct decades ago.
If they can't be bothered to program CPUs that behave like human beings at various skill levels and don't just input read and cheat then single player becomes null and void and for a genre that has so little to it already it shouldn't be allowed to survive as a genre.
They've had like 40 years to figure this shit out, at this point they either can't do it or they don't want to and never will.
And like it or not 1337 combo masters, that is how you get newcomers into a franchise.
Street Fighter IV had something similar to the input correcting AI Harada was talking about, where they read missed Z motion inputs as Z motions. In practice, it didn't make the game easier, the competitive crowd discovered the various motions that registered as a z motion and you got people doing insane shit like performing a shoryuken out of a crouching block. In short, it made the game harder.
It's not just you. We're all dying