Addressing Common “All or Nothing” Thinking | Exploring Fighting Games 02
novriltataki
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03.05.2022
This is a great series
I made my husband watch this, he is a big fighter fan but gets discouraged easily when he goes online and loses to everyone, then he puts the game away until he feels "like it" again.
Getting some Maximilian vibe here
FUN ALERT
Great video, and great work on the narration.
GREAT VIDEO! Agreed with everything you said. It's funny I stream and play sfv alot which ppl say is a simple game at his core but higher lvl the mind games are real. On off days I can feel myself getting frustrated from things I could rectify or just not trying. This was great I'm very eager to get better at these games but I think I will start to take it easy and not force it too much
My question (that I think it doesn''t have an answer) is how to deal if you are feeling actual regress. The feeling of actually playing worse even dat not bein enough to kill my love for fg's it drains the fun out of it.
Great vid man .
I stopped playing fighting games but not for any of the reasons in the video.
First, I feel like playing the games I want I need a fighting stick, and they aren't available where I live, and if I order from abroad I will be skinned alive on the delivery costs.
Second, I play on PC, and the community is relatively small for the games I want to play.
Third, I don't like how by the time on PC we get the latest version, there is already a new one on the horizon for consoles, and I don't like how we are constantly nickel and dimed for new and improved versions/characters etc.
And fourth, considering the small community, that means most people are very dedicated/veterans, and there are very limited/no ppl at my skill level, and after years of playing the veterans (meaning getting crushed 90% of the time) or owning ppl that have no idea what they are doing, I just had enough. There are simply more popular and fulfilling online competitive games out there.
I'm getting PTSD flashback to the ending 60 seconds of every Guilty Gear Crash Course episode.
Thank you so much for making this video. This has been a very problematic thing as of late and you guys gave me a vastly better outlook on my situation. I can't thank you enough. Looking forward to your next video!
That Equilibrium opening gets you an automatic thumbs up!
I still have a hard time visualizing "having fun" in a stressful tournament environment. I've fought 'good players' and 'had fun' before. But I still feel it's hard to focus in such venues. Kinda like stage fright, but more in an environment of people you're not familiar with.
Good video! A part of competitive vs fun is whether one must use their main (esp. on training stage). When I do ranked, I'm likely going with my main & there's less "fun" involved when points are on the line.
But in casual matches w/a PSN friend or whoever, it can be fun to switch up the characters & stages. Unfortunately, I only can play weekends. But I've tried to stay encouraged in fighting games, despite slow improvement.
4:26 You can blur out the whole video, but I'll still notice F.A.B.'s amazing potemkin
Is episode 3 coming soon?
2:23 Tell that to Hearthstone players
the problem with playing to win in many FGs like GG or BB is that they are somehow nieche and the online crowd is made of veterans that just stomp you. You "can't" realistically play to win 🙁
and thus you squeeze fun out of other aspects of the game, like single Player mode or just training with the dream of being stronger in mind
probably the "play to win" mentality applies much better if you have an offline community, but basically nobody in my area plays these games offline and my friends aren't interested to jump in
This means having nobody near my level to enjoy the "play to win" while improving
still, great content as always
Playing competitively = less risk taking, more ambition to win.
Casually = care less about losing, more willing to forgive mistakes.
Making compromises. This reminds me of the days I only had access to Tekken 3 at home, when I was competiting in T6. I couldn't practice my combo execution or gather experience as often as I preferred, because the local arcades/competition were several hours away from my home. But I could improve the more fundamental skills, like reactions(throw breaks, block punish etc).
This video also reminds me of whatever tiny gradual improvements I make in life, I should be happy about them and continue to aim for improvements.
Although i subscribed and watched your videos for a long time, this is my first comment.
Really amazing content you produce, short and clear to the point,
Thank you for this episode. I am always saying I play for fun but I really want to win. I think is just like you said, the sense of improvement, is the sense of fun.
Holy Crap! Was that a rabite?
what does respect mean in the fighting game?
looks like you play some true anime games. besides ggxrd, which everyone knows, melty blood and arcana heart 3 love max. video gets a like regardless just because of that
I honestly never play video games competitvly but now I am giving Pokken tournament my all and its been fun. I have tackled some things in my life with the same mentallity you showed in the video and it has helped me. Thanks for the video, I can tell you put your heart into your videos.
i'm pretty sure people say playing casually and competitively are completely different because they have a mind set for one or the other before they start a match and it effects how you play this isn't that relevant in 1v1 games but in 5v5 or something similar it does because you may be able to change your mindset but your entire team might not.
I like your intro. It's just after the second hour I regret not skipping it from the start.
I would be grateful if you replied to this comment, as I am having issues with choosing the right approach (or even deciding whether to play certain games or not). I know it's a bit of a tl;dr, but I am kind of confused as to what to do…
My problem isn't that I am getting discouraged, nor do I get frustrated or bored with "labbing" and stuff like that. Also, I have this kind of a "soft policy" where I assume I'll lose my first 100 matches whenever I am delving into a new game within a niche or hard genre (fighting games, rts games, legacy-heavy games etc). So, if I go 1-99, I consider that a very positive outcome. I am also pretty good at googling sources and have no problems with watching long videos or tournaments over a cup of coffee and such.
So, we can safely say I am a "good newb":)
My problem stems from me not having enough time to dedicate to a game – which isn't a big problem per se – as you said, one can practice half an hour a day or so. But, combined with the unreliable schedule and the inability to make solid agreements, it becomes a problem, if my game of choice happens to be a niche one.
Due to me being a freelancer and also in a field that requires monstrous amounts of practice and working hours (illustration and concept art), my schedule is all over the place.
This leads me closer to my main point: due to this situation, I have no choice but to put the "fire up, queue, play" notion on a pedestal (when it comes to multiplayer games, of course). This means that games with large player base, fluid queuing mechanics, good MM and short "play units" are the ones I have to chose, basically.
With fighting games, that is often not the case. I can play sfv like that, because it has crossplay, is one of the most popular fighting games out there and the whole skill spectrum is present in multiplayer (I think this is also very important). So, I can go in, go out, so to speak. Coffee break? Why not play a match. In this sense, sfv can be played almost as if it was an elaborate juggernaut, like dota, cs, overwatch and such.
So, you are guessing what my problem is:) I want to play GG. I got the game recently and I am messing around with missions, tutorials, training mode etc. Which is all fine and dandy. But, if what people are saying is true, I have to make quite a bit of "meta effort" in order to actually play it as intended. Meaning that people don't play ranked, so I can't queue and forget and get bodied on that coffee break. There's no casual match queue either. In fact, there's no any "queue" which is viable. There are "beginner lobbies", but they are deserted as the player base doesn't use them. All that is left are player rooms. Which is a pretty narrowed down notion to cling to.
People mention "discord" and "time of day" and "friends" – all these notions make me shudder – not because I am antisocial or don't understand the notion of a low population multiplayer game, but because of the inability for me to engage in those things.
Furthermore, the fact that it's a legacy game and that all of ~250 people online are probably demigods, doesn't help:)
While it's beneficial to learn from a match with a better player, when the difference is vast, it becomes nonsensical (ie me playing basketball against Michael Jordan).
Long story short – would it be possible for me to enjoy GG multiplayer on pc without going for the whole "community" thingy?
Thanks in advance.
Ok I legit thought this was going to be about someone always gambling and making reads in a match.
Nice video!
"Playing Competitively" and "Playing casually" are one and the same? Can you please explain? Becuase to me, that doesn't make any sense. And one's having more fun when pushing himself harder? Sorry but I don't get it.
I'd like to say that, not always winning is the best way to have fun.
Example: I play GG with a friend of mine and I can beat him every single time at the moment, so we devote a bit of time for serious gamplay and then when one of us gets salty, we just start to dick around doing stupid shit and not really caring on who wins or loses. I have more fun by fooling around than beating someone who has less experience than me.
Also, some people don't take the game too seriously and just want to mash some buttons at the end of the day, that's what I understand by casual and that is perfectly fine as long as they realize that their progress will be impeded by their ability to just mash buttons that lets them have fun without stress.
Music at 5:46?
oooooooo, you put Tanukana in this vid, she is so adorable and also highly skilled Tekken player, I love her.
Playing a game because you derive fun from winning, pub stomping, or other forms of griefing is not the same as playing a game because you find the game fun. It's a fallacious rationalization at best and a disingenuous troll at worst.
I would argue that we are not always "playing to win". Depending on my opponent and what kind of personality they have , sometimes I end up playing for the "what if" factor. Fought this guy the other day on UNIST and he dp'd like 5 times in a row and I made a comback, he knew I was one hit, but instead of playing intelligently he goes brain dead and spans DP. I won that game, but I was laughing my ass off.
I disagree 100%. There are mechanical limitations that simply make it impossible to categorize all types of playing as the same.
You cant play to win if you have shit execution. This is a fact.
You cant play to win if you cant learn match ups
Gold.
I cannot play FG anymore. I cannot grasp why they feel disgusting to me ever since SF IV. Only post 2k9 game that has ever felt good to play to me, was KOF 13. I could play that game for hours non stop. The rest feel shallow. Slow. I cannot grasp what they are missing tbh.
There's some games I stay away from simply because they lack straight forward answers or answers at all to things that I feel are inefficient at conditioning my opponents. Is why I prefer games Street Fighter and most 3D games. Lack of a supporting community is another. Playing competitive isn't the desire to win alone. It's the will to understand the established meta and playing with said meta that adds chemistry to your aforementioned playstyle. You learn the rules of the system and play characters that suit your path to playing the meta correctly. If a game favors only one real playstyle, it can be hard for people who prefer a different approach thus give up. People stick to what they know.
How do you handle a mental block such as "I want to win, but I feel like winning using X method makes me look like a jerk."
This depends on the characters' execution requirements and the balance of universal mechanics (If at all) You'll be forced to learn X thing to even begin to be successful with Y character.
I feel like there's no real middle man to this. I specialize in specific fighting games, understand frames and other concepts but I still find it hard to adjust to a new fighting game because of my personal beliefs based on the fighting games I do play mid-high lvl like SF (V's netcode is shit, can't play it honestly) VF5FS (I have to play offline which I have for 6 years and know it very well) It has taught me how to approach Tekken (Albeit theirs gripes I have with it as a VF player) I feel like there's not enough for me to try and play. Need some recomendations.
One of the down sides of fighting games (2D ones especially), is that the long strings of unblockable combo makes it seem like a single player game, with the losing player just spectating. If you want to just combo-string someone to death without them being able to do anything, then why not just spend time in the lab? Why bother playing a game with a punching bag that's able to respond at all?
On playing to win vs playing for fun, why not just unplug your opponent's controller so you can combo them without response? That's a win. Why not punch them in the face, and then win the game while they're processing what you just did? Why not send someone with wire cutters to your opponent's house so they can literally cut their internet cable so you can win an online game, like I hear the did in Eve Online? That's winning. I'm sure they had fun doing that.
If I'm picking up a game of badminton or ping pong with someone, my goal is to enjoy myself with trying to keep the ball going as long as possible, because I'm not good enough to play competitively. They've played more of the game, and have likely played it more recently than me, who has played the game a half-dozen times in my life, with the most recent time being more than a decade ago. It is not reasonable for someone who has familiarity and basic competence to go as hard as they can against someone who's still learning the ropes. Imagine a professional sports team playing against middle schoolers, and having them try really hard to win as thoroughly as possible. The middle schoolers would stand no chance, and probably wouldn't have fun. The skill gap is significant, and can't be overcome. Before you can even think about playing competitively, it's necessary to make sure everyone has the baseline familiarity with the game's rules and systems. When I'm playing a game and bringing someone in to it, or they're massively less skilled than I am, the game turns into a "practice round" or some other way where they get tutored in the basic skills. Then, once they're comfortable with the way things go, we play a low-intensity competitive version of it, where the challenge for me is to match my skill output with what they're able to do.
You can only call it winning when the opposing player is at or close to your own skill level, and you're both sticking to clear rules about what tactics you're not going to use, like the controller unplugging, punching, or cable-cutting mentioned above.
casually you can go to more fancy combos that are harder not that rewarding but are alot more fun to watch, competitively i just do 100% combos secure the win nothing fancy
Thank you for making this. This is a huge problem ive had for the two years ive been playing Smash
"Fighting games at higher levels is more fun than playing at lower levels" this statement seems controversial to me. I suppose it can be more exciting at higher levels just like a faster race is more frilling than a slower one but that doesn't make it more fun for everyone. Zero quit competitive smash because the stress of that consistantly high level play eventually made the game not fun for him. Where as lower level players dont hinge on the success as much and focus more on socializing about the game and enjoying the music and aesthetics.