1 PROBLEM with every fighting game subgenre
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HOME – Native
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00:00 Intro
01:21 Traditional Fighters
02:18 3D Fighters
03:20 Platform Fighters
04:59 Anime Fighters
05:42 Assist Fighters
07:01 Outro
tags:
#brawlhalla #brawlhallaclips #fgc
Brawlhalla is a free-to-play 2D platformer fighting game developed by Blue Mammoth Games and Ubisoft for Nintendo Switch, Xbox Series X|S, Xbox One, PS5, PS4, Steam, iOS, and Android, with full cross-play across all platforms. It also has some of the most satisfying combo mechanics of any fighting game I’ve played, because doing successful low damage to kill combos is extremely hard. You have to either 100% know where your opponent is going or just make up some wacky play and hope for the best. It makes the kills all the more exciting. Brawlhalla has reached OVER 1 million in esports prize pools this year and over 50 million online players in total.
A lot of this seems to come from lack of information. When someone dies in MvC3, that's the end of the combo. Next will be the incoming where the opponent now has to attempt to mix you up to kill your next character or risk getting the same thing done to them. That MVC3 combo you have shown was for fun. Because people find fun in execution. Imagine combos in like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta. Or in Shooters like Ultrakill or Quake Arena. Go check out Sajam, Core A Gaming, and Leon Massey for some pretty good fighting game vids that can break things down a lot more simpler and doesn't feel like mounting a gigantic wall.
In general, these dont seem like problems. They just seem like things you don't like. Which is fine, but you shouldn't confuse "This is something that needs to be fixed," with "I don't like this game, it isn't for me". Just like there's a Melty Blood Type Lumina and Overwatch where it lower execution to be more accessible to the main stream, there's also Street Fighter 4 and Valorant where its absurdly technical and that's the fun of those games, learning the tech and over coming your opponent.
Missed arena fighters. Which are often anime games as well, but with full 3D movement, even less limited than traditional 3D fighters. Stuff like Naruto Storm, MHA One’s Justice, Jump Force, Demon Slayer Hinokami Chronicles, etc.
Interesting video, I never really thought of breaking down the problems with different genres like this. It's a little generalized, but when you only have like 1 minutes to cover each genre, it kinda has to be haha. Might check the channel to see if there are individual videos with more in depth looks at each.
Regarding platform fighters though, I would definitely argue that passive play isn't a problem for the genre as a whole, just Brawhalla.
Brawhalla permits every character 3 jumps, a recovery, and almost never puts your character in a position where they cannot act (think the free fall after dodging or recovering in smash). These factors lend to Brawhalla being a really passive game, but attempting to do the same in games like Smash, Rivals of Aether, or Project M, will slowly drain your character of important defensive resources (a double jump, for example) and lead to openings for the aggressor.
There are definitely exceptions to this, Puff in Melee comes to mind, but having an occasional character that thrives on passive play certainly isn't a problem for the genre at large.
Fun video though, and I hope to see more things in the future
I always liked Platform Fighters better. At first it was just because they were easier to approach as a new player, but now it's because of the freedom they provide with movement, making it able to bring the battle to every corner of the screen. I've always been a sucker for air fights lmao. Also, I really like the health system: in more every subgenre that isn't platform fighters, you have a certain health bar, and that's it. If it reaches 0, then it's 0, it's done, fight is over. "Meter bars" (Idk how to call them – Smash's percentages and Brawlhalla's color gradients) however, make so that even when at 150%-200% or dark red (averagely speaking) a kill is not necessarily guaranteed by landing a hit, and this goes hand in hand with the corner mechanic.
next give one problem with every fighting game so i know what excuses i need to use to save my ego
Fighting games I've ever played seriously are SF, MK, KI, Tekken and KoF series, so I guess I don't have any.
I like 3D fighters quite a lot, but I don't get many opportunities to play them. Some of them, especially SoulCalibur, have movesets that take the extra movement into account. Some moves will be vertical to catch things like jumps but also be easy to sidestep, while others will be horizontal to catch sidesteps with some other weakness like jump. It makes for cool movement-based mindgames that 2D fighters miss out on.
What is that outro song?
where does killer instinct fall
There’s a bit of a problem with putting all 3D fighting games in the same subgenre because all of the big 3D fighting games (and that’s pretty much all 3D fighting games) play completely differently. Each 3D fighting game would probably be worthy of its own subgenre if there were more games that played like it, they’re that different. VF is more of a traditional fighting game with sidestepping and walls/ring outs (ring outs are mainly VF thing though) than a true 3D fighting game, and DOA is a Tomonobu Itagaki game so it plays like what I would imagine snorting cocaine is like. DOA has the triangle system which is what happens when you take the rock, paper, scissors aspect of fighting games and then literally make it rock, paper, scissors and it has the most complicated throw game out of any game I can think (almost every character could be considered a grappler by some games standards). Soulcaliber is weapon based, that’s literally all I have to say. Similar problems with the other subgenres but this one sticks out to me the most.
So quick Information on the anime fighting game sub genre it is divided bit more in the genre being arena fighters(mechanics suck but they offer style and story) and the normal 2d fighter(mostly has the insane mechanics). There is like an exception in the arena fighters being gundam extreme versus a game that is insanely mechanically deep.
This is so bad it’s borderline parody.
I think RTS/Turn based games are harder than Fighting games
I'd wish smash had an option for a 1v1 or 2v2 "Tag team" from 2 characters, up yo 4 characters per team, and the option of playing up to 8 players, at least locally. Like Marvel or Fighterz(with no assists, but assists would be cool too!), but it's smash. I heard that Brawlhalla has a mode like this, i wonder how it works.
There's arena fighters
I know fighterz is the most famous anime fighter or one of, but really it has some of the longest combos out of all fighting games, despite being true that they're bigger generally, I know some anime fighters that have combos long as daigo's guile combos lol
There are other "sub genres" of fighting games. You covered 2D/2.5D traditional, anime/air dashers/vs/tag games, platform games, and 3D fighters. There are arena fighters (like power stone, naruto storm, pokken, touho) and point/stamina based fighters (boxing games, wrestling games, taekwondo games). Theres also old school anime games that look like traditional fighters but button schemes are very simplified (naruto ultimate ninja "not storm", dragonball budokai "not budokai tenkaichi")
0:00 Song sounds like Vaporwave Krabby Patty (AKA Native Patties).
I like that you have Brawlhalla in this, I lie Brawlhalla.
Alot of what you said was wrong because of just understanding misinformation.
You dont block combos for one. Combos are what you get off of a hit then you go into that characters combo theory.
Id say alot of your problems are to do with not understanding how they play because genuinely combos are not as important as you think they are in every fighting game ever.
I thinking the biggest problem with fighting games is teaching players its basics and being approachable by newer players.
Majority of players in the fgc are casual like myself.
Yo that Tekken angle to show sidesteps is kinda sick
In that Marvel 3 clip, every time it says "team aerial combo", there is a chance for the player getting hit to break it so it isn't a true combo.
I can tell you don’t really play other types of fighting games but even so you’ve done a pretty good job with this video, would say Dragon Ball FighterZ wasn’t a good source to use for anime fighters even tho it’s literally based off a anime the term anime fighter is completely different something like Blazblue, Guilty Gear, Under Night In-Birth, Persona 4 arena and Melty Blood fall into the anime fighter category. FighterZ is a assist/magic series fighter like Marvel vs Capcom and Skull Girls
Interesting video, mostly because of your perspectiver as coming from outside the "core" fgc. There is some factual errors, semantics nitpicks and things that you couldn't know because of experience, but it's worth to listen to. Some minor corrections:
-"Assist fighters" are more often called "team fighters" by most of the community.
-"Combo menus" would be "command list" if you refer to where you can see your special moves inputs.
-There is no fighting game (or any game) without a casual playerbase. Casual only means that they either don't compete, or don't care to do well on tournaments. All of the games you mentioned do have casual communities, it's just harder to appreciate as an outsider.
Like I said, mostly just nitpicks, but I would like to talk about some of the other things you mentioned.
"Traditional fighters" don't really struggle to get a casual fanbase, "footsies" does more so because it doesn't have characters, and specifically appeals to competitive players from its premise. The thing traditional fighters (all fighting games tbh)really struggle with is mantaining a casual fanbase, and the real reason isn't because they aren't casual friendly, it's because they are lacking in features, that is to say: game modes, costumes, unlockables, extras, good online. While most big fighting games have some, or all of these, they still only offer 5-10 hours of gameplay to casual fans. That said, games like Tekken, Street Fighter, or Dragon Balls FighterZ do have a decently big casual fanbase, it's just really small in comparison to brawlhalla or smash, and this is for other reasons. In the case of Brawlhalla, the game is free, has amazing netcode, and a functional ranked mode (with doubles). Smash has the name, the IPs and the reputation as a "kids game", so it attracts and keeps these players way better.
The thing about combos in anime fighters is more nuanced than it may look. With games known for really long combos like skullgirls, blazblue or guilty gear, also having mechanics that either discourage those combo routes or give you a way to escape, scaling and resets for the first and burst or infinite prevention for the latter. Dbfz is a strange case, combos can feel very long mostly because of a lack of burst, or another way to escape them (such as killer instinct's combo breaker). The marvel vs capcom combo you show was done mostly as a show of skill, is not something realistic or useful in a match, to begin with, it isn't guaranteed, and the damage you get is mostly useless as the character would die way earlier.
Sorry for the big comment, I still thought the video was good. All the corrections are in good faith, as you couldn't know most of this.
The combo thing….
Exactly why Killer Instinct is the best fighter ever made
assist fighters are more like Morph, than Strikeout.
I let my little sister play the Fantasy strike tutorial.
She puts one finger up, looks at the keyboard, and holds the right button to go right.
She picks the same finger and uses it to attack.
She repeats.
She refuses to use more than one finger simultaneously.
Well, if you want the perfect fighting game for casuals, just make it one big button.
That would work for them.
However you're gonna have trouble convincing a professional piano player to play with one note for the rest of their life
You try Budokai Tenkaichi 3?
No
Have you played guilty gear strive?
Because when it comes to anime games it’s probably the most accessible and combos don’t last too long. Also for traditional fighting games street fighter 5 is pretty accessible
That mvc3 combo was sick, I'd be impressed even if I got hit by it which I already have😅
Running away for as long as you want? Must be a brawlhalla thing, that's not an issue in smash (unless this 1 stage with greninja/sonic and a slow character) or nasb (unless they didn't nerf April o neil)
I feel like the only traditional fighting game with the combos like “anime fighters” would be jojo heritage to the future and that shit is crazy long and it looks like I would break my keyboard with that amount of inputs
“This clip from Marvel vs Capcom 3 is truly ridiculous.” It’s funny, because it is true.
Good video but I feel like you should have mentioned how anime fighters tend to have a burst mechanic that lets you break out of combos around once per round. This really helps with those super long combos.
Song at the end?
And then there’s For Honor
I definitely don't think that the segment for anime fighters was accurate or well explained at all. You didn't even define what an anime fighter is, is DBFZ an anime fighter just because it's based on anime? Because it has much more in common with MvC and "assist fighters" than it does something like BB or GG.
Also weren't flaws supposed to be the point of this video? Because I'm not sure it really did that well either.
I don't think that you have enough experience with other genres to adequately explain what's going on in them. Judging by this video.
No offense.
Don't forget theyre traditional fighters with entries that have either tag team or assist only mechanics. Games like Tekken Tag Tournament 1&2 SFXT KOF 99-2001 KOF 2003&11 and Persona 4 Arena. These games actually experimented with those mechanics before although isn't as chaotic as with MVC and DBFZ they still offered unique takes on extending combos and various different options that u can do. Those games are known for their traditional systems but KOF has always been a teambase fighter with turn-based elimination style rounds. Where u fight each indivual character on an opposing team until all are beaten.
Tho with the games I've mentioned they aren't afraid to dip their toes and try something new and innovative some were successful somewhat but others failed that's how it is.
Oo boy
Banger vid. As someone who played a shitton of brawlhalla while also playing now street fighter games this was an awesome vid
6:47 i wanna learn that
Assists Fighters are more like Morph in Brawlhalla beacause there you can take three characters and you can swap between them mid fight and make insane true combos
What about Third Person Fighting Games?
great video, agree with most of your opinions on every game
could you tell me the name of the music that plays at the end of the video? thank you in advance 🙂
1:11 EW you showed Nick All Stars to represent Platform Fighters, you could have showed Smash, or Brawlhalla, or Rivals of Aether or anything else. Oh well at least you didn't show Playstation All Stars Battle Royal.
Bruh I can not play a game where I get hit once and an entire cutscene plays, and I'm by the time the combo ends humans have are living on Mars.
That mvc thing at the end is a horrible example because it could never be done in a real match, therefore not a problem! Get a real argument man, or show a valid example
Don’t call the combo “true”. If the combo is not “true” then we just don’t call it a combo in the first place. Also your problem with anime and team fighters is the reason that people play them. Landing long combos is super fun, and people can get hyped even if they are the one being comboed.
Some anime fighters have rather short combos, they are way more marked by the freedom that gattlings give, the less restricted movement and the amount of bullshit and knowledge checks you have to deal with